…getting weird stuff: either this process is seriously broken, or one of my Mayhem Modifiers is interfering…
edit - Chain Gang really messes with that interaction, so I turned off Mayhem, but as I type this, enemies that die from pet-Dominations from the Tr4iner COM do not throw FL4K’s kill skills (Rage and Recover anyway).
Of course, because the COM needed another reason to suck.
If I ever get anymore of these trash heaps I’ll send them your way.
This doesn’t deserve it’s own thread or spot in the OP since the topic of attack command damage has been beaten to death, but I just wanted to lay out some things about it since I see some Youtube builds incorporating them more with Gamma Burst.
The pet damage formula shows that all pets do the same base melee damage. For the most part, attack commands are based of some multiple of the basic melee damage pets deal. Most of them are set at about 4x damage, while splash pets are about 8x.
This means that, at base with no points in Sic Em’, assuming each pet attacks at least once per second (which most except for maybe Beefcake do), most AC deal 4 seconds worth of damage instantly on a 20 second cool down. Even splash pets only deal about 8x damage at base, meaning that 8 seconds of basic attacks will out DPS them.
Going into each pet individually
Centurion and Scorcher - No splash scaling, and after the 7/23 their AC deal 60% of their original damage, meaning they only deal about 2 basic attacks worth of damage on a 20 second cool down. No need to explain why that sucks.
Guard Skag - it literally just deals 4 ticks of its melee damage as corrosive spit that doesn’t get melee bonus from GftE or Rad from Gamma. Again, don’t need to explain why this sucks.
Horned Skag - No splash scaling, and is dealing exactly 2 basic attacks worth or damage on 20 second cool down as of 7/23. Again, wasn’t great to begin with and is irredeemable now.
Sidekick Jabber - does 4x the damage of melee attacks, but he fires a pistol at about half of the damage of a melee attack and shoots about twice per second. This pistol mayhem scales, so by M10 it will deal about half the damage of an AC. So it works out to about the same amount as the other pets, which is trash.
Eridian - scales off of splash, but it only does 2.4x basic melee damage. It works out to about the same damage as the others.
Beefcake - His shotgun scales with mayhem, so he gets weird. At M0, his AC is already pretty weak since it only does a little more than double his shotgun damage at close range (and his shotgun deals almost 2x the damage basic melee does), but by M10 his AC and basic attacks are nearly dealing the same damage. If it weren’t for Hollowpoint, this one would be in the trash bin too.
These are a bit more nuanced
Countess - Splash pets naturally have AC that deal about 8x the damage of basic melee. Ants seems to attack slightly slower than other pets, so assuming she attacks once every 1.5 seconds, she could perform 13 basic attacks over 20 seconds. It would take 15 basic attacks to overtake the AC damage not accounting for splash.
Gunslinger - AC damage is based of multiples of the basic melee, but gunslinger’s SMG is completely separate from those values so things get dicey. Gunslinger has an average DPS of 12880 while the AC does 115566. Gunslinger’s basic attack over 20 seconds equals about 2.5x his AC damage. Splash rolls on COM/artifact bring it close, but basics would still out DPS the AC by 17 seconds IN. You need splash anointment for even Gunslinger’s AC to out DPS basic attacks.
There has been a trend in the game for attack commands to get worse as time goes on. Attack commands have never been amazing, but after the 7/23 patch and subsequent scaling changes they’ve gotten to an all time low. 6/9 pets have an attack command that does 2x or less the damage of it’s basic attack by M10. Only Countess, Gunslinger, and Eridian have attack commands that still deal more than 4x damage, and even then Eridian is still terrible even with splash, Gunslinger NEEDs splash to out DPS the SMG, and Countess’ AC only wins out because her basic attacks are so slow.
So the moral of this story? Unless using Countess or Gunslinger with splash, don’t bother ever using AC for damage.
Okay, so it’s not just me. I was wondering why my base attacks were improving more than AC with each level cap.
That 7/23 change can be reverted at any time
Yeah, the AC damage is really gated by the cool down. 4x the damage of basic attacks didn’t do ■■■■ vs old M4 enemies, and neither did basics, but one of them had a 20 second cool down while the other didn’t. Ironically if it weren’t for all the BS that came with 7/23 AC would be solid. Not amazing, but with gamma on melee pets they would be pretty OK. But since Jabber’s basics outscale the AC and the ants/skag got nerfed, they are nearly universally worthless now.
May be worth picking up depending on the bonus. I have a leftover terror anoint I can check around 5 unless anyone else can upload a screenshot first.
Remember that terror applies to ALL pet damage (except Atomic Aroma) so it buffs He Bites.
I’m predicting a Rakk Attack build with a +3 He Bites T4mer COM being hella powerful.
F, it’s been a long time coming!!!
Only thing is that now our best pet damage for both basic and attack commands comes from anointments, and one of them is tied to attack commands that are basically DPS losses that you need to spam every 10 seconds.
It’s a double edged sword, but what else is new?
Does the Rad damage stack with the Incendiary terror annoint? So we could gain both Radiation and Incendiary?
I didn’t mess with it that much last year
Yes, but both function the same way with splash.
Haven’t playtested yet, but napkin math is exciting.
On flesh, terror anoint should about double AC damage.
On basic attack against flesh, it should QUADRUPLE it. I mean, we may have Countess hitting over 6mil basic attacks on M10. That’d be enough damage to pretty massively out DPS Frozen Heart nova, so we can replace it with another shield and use terror health regen instead.
Obviously I need to go in game to see, but if this pans out then this build should have the damage to 1 shot anointed enemies, or at least get them in slayer range.
Does HP regeneration from Terror annoint check BFF’s?
Not sure. @plenipotence I think I remember someone testing this before. Do you know of anything?
If not, I’ll try it out in game.
I’ve a few questions. Generally switching weapons would disable active anointments but does that apply to this one too? I’m just wondering if it might be an exception since it activates a buff on the pet. I found a pistol with this so it might be decent for swap tactics if that’s the case.
I see in the earlier pic that this anointment can spawn on shields too. Can you get this on grenades as well?
The wording on the anointment kind of suggests that it doesn’t benefit in any way of having terror stacks. Do you even need to have any stacks to activate the anointment?
After doing some testing with the pet terror anoint, I noticed some inconsistencies with Countess’ damage formula as seen here and what I was seeing in game. After re-testing Countess, I found that I had made an error in calculating her AC damage previously. Her correct values are now listed in the OP. Sorry for any confusion.
Also, in light of the newly buffed terror anoint, I’m going to try re-testing it again to get a handle on the interactions it has with GftE and Sic Em.
After testing the terror anointment again, I have some updates on its interaction with other attacks. If requested I can provide video, but it would be fairly long since I’d need to save quit after every AC to reset GftE.
- Sic Em does scale consistently with terror for the most part. I had strangely low numbers come up now and again, but it seems that for the most part it will be included in the terror anoint’s damage formula.
- Sic Em also scales consistently even when using the Deadeye class mod.
- Go for the Eyes does not factor into the terror anoint at all.
You do need to be careful when using terror with AC though. It is a fair amount of weapon swapping to keep in mind. I’ll try to get a run uploaded today.
EDIT: Terror anoint also last somewhere between 18 and 21 seconds.
Terror is REALLY good for Scorcher. Since the fire element on the anointment matches her fire attacks, it is pretty much a 3x multiplier on all her damage while active.
I tried terror with Killer Queen, and while I does add enough damage to 1 shot anointed enemies, you need to change your set up tremendously and lose a great deal of personal damage. It CAN work if all you care about is pet damage, but it’s honestly just overkill.
Gunslinger works like expected, but need to use the AC so often means he’s gonna be eating the floor a lot.