[Guide] FL4K's Damage Formula


Welcome! This is a breakdown of FL4K’s Damage Formula, from Weapons to Action Skills, Pets and other interactions!

Recommended Resources

Critical Hit Calculation by @DocStrangelove
The Math of Fade Away by @jafortune
FL4K’s Universal Multiplicative Damage Boosts video by @DemoniteBL
BL3 Math Basics video by @flightx3aa
Prismatic’s Gearology and Math to better understand how specific gear or weapons work.
FL4K Pet Compendium by @boombumr
Fl4k Skills, Augments and Pets - Rating and Analysis by @darreltan2004

Thank you to the creators of all those!

Special thanks to @Prismatic for their work in general in regards to BL3 Math, and the assistance with formatting.
Special thanks to @plenipotence for all of their testing and assistance. A lot of what you see here has them involved.
Thank you to @boombumr for their perseverance in dealing with pets and all the stuff they’ve figured out for them.


Table of Contents


BASE FORMULA

No Guardian Rank, no anointments, no class mod/shield/artifact stat boosts. Basically skills and class mod special effects only.

Final Damage Output = Base Damage x Gun Damage x V1 x V2 x Elemental Multiplier x Crit

  • V1 and V2 are just made up naming schemes originally used in Demonite’s FL4K video. Skill tree wise, V1 is quite unique to FL4K compared to other Vault Hunters, and a general boost that increases all damage dealt from any source. V2 has both general boosts and specific boosts (like weapon type boosts).

Base Damage = Original weapon hit damage, which may or may not match weapon card damage, depending on the weapon’s effects. Can be basically any number depending on what you intend to test.

Gun Damage = (1+ FuriousAttack + TurnTail + FastFurryous + PersistenceHunter + HornedSkagGunDmg + DangerousGame + GrimHarvest + St4ckbot)

V1 = (1 + Frenzy + EmpathicRage + PackTactics + SkagDmg + Interplanetary + PowerInside)

V2 = (1 + HiddenMachine + HuntersEyeArmor + DE4DEYE)

Elemental Multiplier = [ElementalDamageMultiplier x (1 + ArtifactElementalDmg + IntStalkerCorrosive + ScorcherAnt)]

Crit = [2 x [(1 + SniperBonus) x (1 + WeaponCardBonus) x (1 + ManufacturerBonus) x (1 + AmbushPredator + DangerousGame + GalacticShadow + GunslingerJabber)] + (Fade/Guerillas + UnblinkingEye) + (HuntersEyeHuman)]

  • Crit has what are called “Post Add” bonuses. These are additive bonuses to the main Critical hit formula, and on this base formula they appear in the form of Fade Away and Hunter’s Eye Human Crit Bonus.

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GENERAL FORMULA

Includes Guardian Rank, anointments and other boosts.

Final Damage Output = Base Damage x Gun Damage x V1 x V2 x Pearl Stacks x Splash x Slide/Airborne Damage Anoints x Elemental Multiplier x Crit x Guardian Rank Gun Damage x Amp Shield x Harmageddon

  • It’s unknown if Slide/Airborne Damage anointments are additive to each other, but since they can’t be used together anyway (as of now at least), they’ll be displayed like that for ease of use.

  • The “Rakk Attack 100%” Anointment is referred to as “Rakk Slag” in this.

  • The “300% vs. above 90% HP” Anointment is referred to as “High Health Breaker” in this.

  • Pearl Of Ineffable Knowledge appears in both Gun Damage and on its own section. The Gun Damage from it is the final 90% Boost that you get by achieving maximum stacks. The stacks are their own Pearl Stacks section and currently act as purely multiplicative, as far as testing went.

Base Damage = Original weapon hit damage, which may or may not match weapon card damage, depending on the weapon’s effects. Can be basically any number depending on what you intend to test.

Gun Damage = [color=steelblue](1 + FuriousAttack + TurnTail + FastFurryous + PersistenceHunter + HornedSkagGunDmg + DangerousGame + GrimHarvest + ComWeapDmg + St4ckbot + GunDmgAnoint + PearlFinalBoost)

  • PearlFinalBoost is the 90% boost you get at max Pearl Stacks. This boost, while implied otherwise in its description, is Gun Damage.

V1 = (1 + Frenzy + EmpathicRage + PackTactics + SkagDmg + Interplanetary + PowerInside + VictoryRush + C-C-Combo)

V2 = (1 + HiddenMachine + HuntersEyeArmor + DE4DEYE + RakkSlag + ComTypeBoost + ArtifactTypeBoost + IceBreaker + GrenadeThrowAnoint + HighHealthBreaker)

Pearl Stacks = (1.01^Stacks)

  • Pearl Stacks are multiplicative to each other, and end up as 1.01^15 = 1.1609 (16.09%).

Splash = (1 + ClassModSplashDmg + ArtifactAreaDmg + SplashAnoint)

Slide/Airborne Damage Anoints = (1 + WhileSliding/AirborneDmgAnoint)

Elemental Multiplier = [ElementalDamageMultiplier x (1 + ArtifactElementalDmg + IntStalkerCorrosive + ScorcherAnt + GRank Elemental + OldGod)]

Crit = [2 x [(1 + SniperBonus) x (1 + WeaponCardBonus) x (1 + ManufacturerBonus) x (1 + AmbushPredator + DangerousGame + GalacticShadow + GunslingerJabber + ClassMod + GRankCrit + GenericCritAnoint) x (AirborneCritAnoint)] + (Fade/Guerillas + UnblinkingEye) + (HuntersEyeHuman) + (RakkCritAnoint)]

  • Crit has what are called “Post Add” bonuses. These are additive bonuses to the main crit formula, and on this general formula they appear in the form of Fade Away’s Crit Damage, Hunter’s Eye Human Crit Bonus and Rakk Attack Crit Anointment.

Guardian Rank Gun Damage = [(1 + GRankGunDamage)]

Amp Shield = [(1+ AmpShield)]

Harmageddon = [(1 + 0.05)], up to [(1 + 0.20)]
Each unique status instance is an additional + 0.05, which goes up to 0.20 for a x1.20 multiplier.

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CRITICAL HIT

The Crit section has some specific values that are not known at a glance, alongside some other things like the already mentioned Post Add boosts. Here’s a quick breakdown of the general formula:

Crit = [2 x [(1 + SniperBonus) x (1 + WeaponCardBonus) x (1 + ManufacturerBonus) x (1 + AmbushPredator + DangerousGame + GalacticShadow + GunslingerJabber + ClassMod + GRankCrit + GenericCritAnoint) x (AirborneCritAnoint)] + (Fade/Guerillas + UnblinkingEye) + (HuntersEyeHuman) + (RakkCritAnoint)]

  • SniperBonus = 20% for all Sniper Rifles of any manufacturer.

  • WeaponCardBonus = The critical hit bonus listed on a weapon’s card.

  • ManufacturerBonus = Hidden manufacturer specific boost. 5% for Hyperion, 10% for Jakobs (any of their weapons).

  • Hunter’s Eye is actually 6% Post Add crit per point up to 30%, unlike the 15% the card states.

    This is because the card tries to represent its effective formula value as a “real” crit on the section that has Skills and other boosts:

    • Damage x [2 x [(RestOfCritFormula) x (1 + 0.15 + CritBoosts)] = 2.30

    But the reality is:

    • Damage x [2 x [(RestOfCritFormula)] + 0.30] = 2.30

Post Add crit bonuses are referred to like that because of how they behave in regards to the formula. Quoting @DocStrangelove’s explanation in their Critical Hit Calculation thread,

FADE AWAY, BODYSHOTS AND CRITS

Fade Away hits are considered a crit for practical effects, like skills and weapons that depend or have features related to crit. Damage-wise, though, they are closer to a “fake” or pseudo-crit, not an “automatic true crit”. This means you still get more damage by hitting the enemy’s weak points. Here’s how Fade Away behaves on Bodyshots and weak point hits:

  • The Base/General Formula is simplified as “Damage” and “RestOfCritFormula” here.

Fade Away Non-weak point hit = Damage x (1 + Fade/Guerrillas + UnblinkingEye)

Fade Away Weak point Hit = Damage x [2 x (RestOfCritFormula) + (Fade/Guerrillas + UnblinkingEye)]

Fade Away Bodyshots simply get the Fade Bonus on top of the Damage, without receiving any other form of crit boost.

A Weak point Hit gives you the “true” crit damage alongside Fade Away damage. This also means Megavore can proc on Fade Away bodyshots. The Fade Away boost has a varying degree of diminishing returns with the crit formula, due to its high value and how it is applied as a Post Add bonus.

Another way to represent a Fade Away Weak point hit is:

Fade Away Weak point Hit = Damage x [2 x (RestOfCritFormula)] + [Damage x (Fade/Guerrillas + UnblinkingEye)]

This basically represents Fade Away adding a % of bodyshot damage as damage to your overall shot.

CRIT AND BASE CALCULATION EXAMPLE

Let’s assume we have a Kinetic Jakobs Sniper with the following stats:

  • 1000 Base Damage
  • 30% Weapon Card Crit
  • Being Jakobs, the weapon has an innate 10% Crit Boost
  • Being a Sniper, the weapon has an innate 20% Crit Boost

And that our build has:

  • 25% Weapon Damage from The Fast And The Furryous
  • 50% V1 from The Power Inside
  • 35% V2 from DE4DEYE
  • 10% Elemental Damage from Scorcher Spiderant
  • 15% Crit from Galactic Shadow
  • 30% Post Add Crit: Hunter’s Eye vs. Human bonus
  • 275% Post Add Crit: Base Fade and 1 Stack of Unblinking Eye
  • Guardian Rank Off
  • Target is a human
  • No Hunt Power boosts (would affect Hunter’s Eye in this case)
  • We’ll be ignoring the elemental multipliers (vs. Flesh, Armor and Shield) and assume neutrality for the sake of finding our final multiplier. That, or you can just assume this is Kinetic vs. Flesh , which would be neutral anyway.

This grants us the following final formula that we’ll use for the examples:

Final Damage Output = Base Damage x (1 + FastFurryous) x (1 + PowerInside) x (1 + DE4DEYE) x (1 + ScorcherAnt) x [2 x [(1 + SniperBonus) x (1 + WeaponCardBonus) x (1 + ManufacturerBonus) x (1 + GalacticShadow)] + (Fade + UnblinkingEye) + (HuntersEyeHuman)]

Weak point hit/Megavore proc without Fade Away:

Final Damage Output = 1000 x (1 + 0.25) x (1 + 0.50) x (1 + 0.35) x (1 + 0.10) x [2 x [(1 + 0.20) x (1 + 0.30) x (1 + 0.10) x (1 + 0.15)] + 0.30]

Final Damage Output = 1000 x 1.25 x 1.50 x 1.35 x 1.10 x [2 x [1.20 x 1.30 x 1.10 x 1.15] + 0.30]

Final Damage Output = 1000 x 1.25 x 1.50 x 1.35 x 1.10 x 4.2468

Final Damage Output = 11824.68375

Weak point hit/Megavore proc with Fade Away:

Final Damage Output = 1000 x (1 + 0.25) x (1 + 0.50) x (1 + 0.35) x (1 + 0.10) x [color=#f44][2 x [(1 + 0.20) x (1 + 0.30) x (1 + 0.10) x (1 + 0.15)] + 2.75 + 0.30]

Final Damage Output = 1000 x 1.25 x 1.50 x 1.35 x 1.10 x [2 x [1.20 x 1.30 x 1.10 x 1.15] + 2.75 + 0.30]

Final Damage Output = 1000 x 1.25 x 1.50 x 1.35 x 1.10 x 6.9968

Final Damage Output = 19481.715

Non-weak point hit with Fade Away:

Non-weak point hits with Fade Away don’t get anything fro mthe actual main crit formula. That leaves us with a diferent base formula:

Final Damage Output = Base Damage x (1 + FastFurryous) x (1 + PowerInside) x (1 + DE4DEYE) x (1 + ScorcherAnt) x (1 + Fade + UnblinkingEye)

It then translates into:

Final Damage Output = 1000 x (1 + 0.25) x (1 + 0.50) x (1 + 0.35) x (1 + 0.10) x (1 + 2 + 0.75)

Final Damage Output = 1000 x 1.25 x 1.50 x 1.35 x 1.10 x 3.75

Final Damage Output = 10441.40625


GRENADE/SHIELD BONUS ELEMENT ON WEAPON

Receives no Splash or Weapon Type Damage boosts

Final Damage Output = %BonusElement x Gun Damage x V1 x V2 x Pearl Stacks x Slide/Airborne Damage Anoints x Elemental Multiplier x Crit x Guardian Rank Gun Damage x Amp Shield x Harmageddon

V2 = (1 + HiddenMachine + HuntersEyeArmor + DE4DEYE + RakkSlag + IceBreaker + GrenadeThrowAnoint + HighHealthBreaker)

Splash = None.

  • Follows the General Formula except for: receives no Splash Multipliers and no Weapon Type Boosts on V2. These anointments are the 50% Bonus Element for 10s that can spawn on Shields and Grenades.

On non-weak point hits, this damage can independently crit via Megavore. Each instance of bonus element has its own 20% chance at a Megavore proc. Leave No Trace and Head Count will only trigger on crits coming from the main damage of the gun.

When hitting a weak point, both the main damage and any bonus elements will crit. Fade Away crits apply correctly to this damage, and works in accordance to what is described in the Fade Away section.

WEAPON BONUS ELEMENT ON WEAPON

Receives no Splash Damage boosts

Final Damage Output = %WeaponBonusElement x Gun Damage x V1 x V2 x Pearl Stacks x Slide/Airborne Damage Anoints x Elemental Multiplier x Crit x Guardian Rank Gun Damage x Amp Shield x Harmageddon

Follows the General Formula except for: receives no Splash multipliers. These do receive Weapon Type Damage boosts on V2. For FL4K, these anointments are:

  • 100% Element on Next 2 Magazines
  • Gamma Burst 115% Bonus Radiation
  • 150% Radiation damage when below 50% health
  • 125%/75% vs. Badass/Named/Boss (it’s a kinetic bonus element)

On non-weak point hits, this damage can independently crit via Megavore. Each instance of bonus element has its own 20% chance at a Megavore proc. Leave No Trace and Head Count will only trigger on crits coming from the main damage of the gun (not bonus elements).

When hitting a weak point, both the main damage and any bonus elements will crit. Fade Away crits apply correctly to this damage, and works in accordance to what is described in the Fade Away section.

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ACTION SKILL FORMULA

Rakk Attack/Gamma Rift Explosion

Final Damage Output = Action Skill Base Damage x Mayhem Scaling x Action Skill Damage Boosts x V1 x V2 x Splash x Elemental Multiplier x Harmageddon

Action Skill Base Damage = Base Card damage listed on the skill tree.

Action Skill Damage Boosts = (1 + GrimHarvest + IntStalkerHuman + ClassModActionSkillDmg)

V1 = (1 + Frenzy + EmpathicRage + PackTactics + SkagDmg + Interplanetary + PowerInside + VictoryRush)

V2 = (1 + HiddenMachine + HuntersEyeArmor + DE4DEYE + IceBreaker + GrenadeThrowAnoint + HighHealthBreaker)

Splash = (1 + ClassModSplashDmg + ArtifactAreaDmg + SplashDamageAnoint)

Elemental Multiplier = [Elemental Bonus Multiplier x (1 + ArtifactElementalDmg + IntStalkerCorrosive + ScorcherAnt + GRank Elemental + OldGod)]

GRENADE/SHIELD BONUS ELEMENT ON ACTION SKILL/MELEE/OTHERS

Receives no Splash or Weapon Type Damage boosts

  • The bonus elements from Shield and Grenade anointments apply universally to these types of damage. This damage includes Grenades, Melee, Action Skills, and Slam.

  • These bonus elements currently do not receive Mayhem Scaling when applied to the listed damage types, except for Grenades, which have their own base damage scaled through the Mayhem loot level.

  • When applied to a source that uses damage dealt for its calculation, there will be no scaling problems. Example: White Elephant bombs have their damage based on the main, non-bonus element damage dealt by the Melee attack, which means the bonus elements on the White Elephant explosion will scale from the White Elephant’s damage. However, the bonus elements on the Melee attack get no scaling.

Final Damage Output = Elemental% Base Damage x V1 x V2 x Elemental Multiplier x Crit x Guardian Rank Gun Damage x Harmageddon

Elemental% Base Damage = The % of Base Damage used as Bonus Element. This is 50% of base damage for Shield/Grenade ASE Bonus Elements.

  • The Shield/Grenade anoints are consistent with their usage on weapons, meaning they don’t get Weapon Type Damage boosts on V2 or Splash Damage boosts.

  • Melee and Action Skill Damage boosts do not apply to these bonus elements.

  • Crit formula applies fully.

On non-weak point hits, this damage can independently crit via Megavore. Each instance of bonus element has its own 20% chance at a Megavore proc. Leave No Trace and Head Count will only trigger on crits coming from the main damage source.

When hitting a weak point, both the main damage and any bonus elements will crit, but only if the main damage source can crit in the first place.

WEAPON BONUS ELEMENT ON ACTION SKILL/MELEE/OTHERS

Receives no Splash or Weapon Type Damage boosts

  • The bonus element from the 150% Radiation while below 50% Health and Terror Cryo anointments apply universally to these types of damage. This includes Grenades, Melee, Action Skills, and Slam.

  • These bonus element receives Mayhem Scaling on applicable sources. Grenades have their own scaling through the Mayhem loot level.

Final Damage Output = Elemental% Base Damage x Mayhem Scaling x Damage Source Boost x V1 x V2 x Elemental Multiplier x Crit x Harmageddon

Elemental% Base Damage = The % of Base Damage used as Bonus Element. This is 150% of base damage for the URad anointment.

Damage Source Boost = Melee/Action Skill/Grenade Damage

  • Depending on which damage the element is being applied to, it can receive boosts that are specific to that damage source. This means it can get Melee damage when applied to Melee, Action Skill Damage when applied to an Action Skill and Grenade Damage when applied to a Grenade.

  • Does not receive Weapon type Damage boosts, since it’s being applied to a non-gun source. Does not receive Splash Damage boosts.

  • Crit formula applies fully.

On non-weakpoint hits, this damage cannot independently crit via Megavore. This is likely due to some key differences in how bonus elements on the player’s Weapon are handled compared to bonus elements on Shield/Grenade. Leave No Trace and Head Count will only trigger on crits coming from the main damage source.

When hitting a weakpoint, both the main damage and any bonus elements will crit, but only if the main damage source can crit in the first place.

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PET DAMAGE FORMULA

Final Damage Output = Base Damage x Mayhem Scaling x Pet Damage x Sic’ Em x DE4DEYE x Go For The Eyes x Splash x Elemental Multiplier x Harmageddon

Base Damage = (BaseHit + 75%GammaBurstRad)

Pet Damage = (1 + FuriousAttack + LickTheWounds + Furryous + PowerInside + Ferocity + Frenzy + PsychoHead + Endurance + PackTactics + IntStalker + DangerousGame + GrimHarvest)

  • All the Pet Damage present in Hunter Skills (Furious Attack, Interplanetary Stalker, Dangerous Game) does not get boosted by Big Game/Hunt Power sources, with the exception of Frenzy and Psycho Head On A Stick.

Sic’ Em = (1 + SicEm). (1 + 0.30) at 3/3, up to (1 + 0.60) at 6/3

  • Sic’ Em applies to Attack Commands only.

DE4DEYE = (1 + DE4DEYE). The 35% damage bonus against targets above 75% health. So, (1 + 0.35)

Go For The Eyes = (1 + GFTE). (1 + 0.75) at 5/5, up to (1 + 1.50) at 10/5

  • Go For The Eyes doesn’t seem to apply to the extra Radiation Damage from Gamma Burst.

Splash = (1 + ClassModSplashDmg + ArtifactAreaDmg + SplashDamageAnoint)

  • Splash applies to Attack Commands only.

Elemental Multiplier = (ElementalDamageMultiplier)

Harmageddon = [(1 + 0.05)], up to [(1 + 0.20)]
Each unique status instance is an additional + 0.05, which goes up to 0.20 for a x1.20 multiplier.

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HUNT POWER AND SKILL VALUES

  • Essentially, it’s a simple formula of:

Skill Value x Hunt Power

  • Furious Attack at 5/5 totals 20% Gun Damage. With 30% Hunt Power, this is:

0.20 * 1.30 = 0.26 (26% Gun Damage)

  • Apart from Frenzy and Psycho Head On A Stick, Pet Damage boosts on Hunter Skills do not receive an increase from Hunt Power. This only affects the damage added to the skills on that older hotfix that attempted to buff pets.

Some Hunt Power boosted skill values and extra class mod rolls:

3/3 BIG GAME BOOSTED HUNTER GUN DAMAGE/DAMAGE SKILLS:

(0.x * 1.30)

  • Furious Attack 5/5: 0.26 at 10 stacks / 0.026 per stack

  • Interplanetary 5/5: 0.39 at 3 stacks / 0.13 per stack

  • Hunter’s Eye 5/5: 0.39 Critical, 0.39 Robot Damage

  • Dangerous Game 3/3: 0.325 Gun Damage, 0.13 Crit

  • Frenzy 5/5: 0.52 at 10 stacks / 0.052 per stack

6/3 BIG GAME BOOSTED HUNTER GUN DAMAGE/DAMAGE SKILLS:

(0.x * 1.60)

  • Furious Attack 5/5: 0.32 at 10 stacks / 0.032 per stack

  • Interplanetary 5/5: 0.48 at 3 stacks / 0.16 per stack

  • Hunter’s Eye 5/5: 0.48 Critical, 0.48 Robot Damage

  • Dangerous Game 3/3: 0.40 Gun Damage, 0.16 Crit

  • Frenzy 5/5: 0.64 at 10 stacks / 0.064 per stack

6/3 BIG GAME BOOSTED HUNTER GUN DAMAGE/DAMAGE SKILLS + STALKER COM WITH +3 BIG GAME +2 INTERPLANETARY:

(0.x * 1.85)

  • Furious Attack 5/5: 0.37 at 10 stacks / 0.037 per stack

  • Interplanetary 7/5: 0.78 at 3 stacks / 0.26 per stack

  • Hunter’s Eye 5/5: 0.555 Critical , 0.555 Robot Damage

  • Dangerous Game 3/3: 0.4625 Gun Damage, 0.185 Crit

  • Frenzy 5/5: 0.74 at 10 stacks / 0.074 per stack

BOUNTY HUNTER ROLLS WITHOUT BIG GAME BOOST
  • Hunter’s Eye 10/5: 0.60 Critical, 0.60 Robot Damage

  • Hunter’s Eye 7/5: 0.42 Critical, 0.42 Robot Damage

  • Frenzy 10/5: 0.80 at 10 stacks / 0.080 per stack

  • Frenzy 7/5: 0.56 at 10 stacks / 0.056 per stack

  • Dangerous Game 6/3: 0.50 Gun Damage, 0.20 Crit

BOUNTY HUNTER ROLLS WITH 3/3 BIG GAME BOOST

(0.x * 1.30)

  • Hunter’s Eye 10/5: 0.78 Critical, 0.78 Robot Damage

  • Hunter’s Eye 7/5: 0.546 Critical, 0.546 Robot Damage

  • Frenzy 10/5: 1.04 at 10 stacks / 0.104 per stack

  • Frenzy 7/5: 0.73 at 10 stacks / 0.073 per stack

  • Dangerous Game 6/3: 0.65 Gun Damage, 0.26 Crit

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BARBARIC YAWP PET BONUSES

Pet Bonus x Yawp

This one’s pretty simple, it’s just the base pet bonus multiplied by the % increase from Yawp.

  • Example with Horned Skag and 5/5 Yawp:

Horned Skag Gun Damage
(SkagGunDmg) x (1 + Yawp) = Final Gun Damage
(0.10) x (1 + 2) = 0.30 (30% Gun Damage)

Horned Skag Damage
(SkagDmg) x (1 + Yawp) = Final Damage
(0.05) x (1 + 2) = 0.15 (15% V1)

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FINAL NOTES

Thanks for reading, and i hope this comes of use! The discovered math/formulas in this game right now are ever so slightly changing in accordance to what is discovered. So when something comes up, i’ll be updating whatever needs updating here.

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27 Likes

Thanks for doing this! It looks very comprehensive. If I would add anything, it would be Barbaric Yawp’s interaction with pet bonuses, and maybe a sample calculation for the critical damage part.

1 Like

Sounds like a plan. Crit quickly became a little messy during recent times so it gets weird.

I added the bonus element interaction with Action Skill Damage. That one is truly cursed. Thanks to Pleni again for confirming how it works.

This is fantastic. Too much to learn and take in. I will probably have some questions as I review again, but for now I just wanted to say thank you for this!

2 Likes

Updated crit to be a little more visually concise with the “Post Add” concept. It has no effective difference in result compared to before.

Where did you get that banner?

Photo Mode picture i took in-game recently. People told me it looked nice so i started using it.

1 Like

@Ratore It appears to me that based upon where elemental multipliers fall in the damage calculations, just purely from the perspective of “highest damage choice,” the best pet choice normally should be the Spiderant Scorcher because it multiplies elemental damage? Am I interpreting this correctly?

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Not necessarily. In actual gameplay, for example, the Horned Skag is at an almost 1:1 rate to Ant, and actually better when your skills are not completely up. Not to mention it affects kinetic damage, while Spiderant doesn’t.

While Skag increases the boosts you generally already have a decent amount of, it’s present in two sections of the formula (Gun Damage and V1). That makes its potential pretty much just as good as Spiderant, with Ant possibly overtaking Skag a bit when your skills are fully up and your weapon is elemental.

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But assuming that you are using elemental anointments on your shield and grenade (which I think a lot, if not most, are), it appears that the elemental bonus from the spiderant also apples to boost that damage as well, correct? In that case wouldn’t the elemental damage of the spiderant win out?

I am only asking because my playing experience suggests the opposite - I usually run the Jabber because I feel like I get better damage output from it. But it seems like maybe I should be running the Spiderant.

Jabber vs. Ant is a win for the Ant pretty much always if you’re running elemental ASEs/have main damage as elemental.

1 Like

Thanks, I agree that it seems to be that the spiderant should put out more damage in theory. As with everything, playstyle and practical experience trumps, however. I feel like I have to pay more attention to the spiderant because all its attacks are up close and it seems to die more often in my Hunter/Stalker build. So I think it feels like I get less out of the spiderant because it seems to require more attention in my build, whereas the ranged attacks of the jabber place it in harm’s way slightly less often.

This is great information though and definitely gives me some things to think about. Thanks again!

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Spiderant is definitely more tanky though, assuming you spec into Stalker for All My BFFs. Which most meta gamma builds don’t anymore, so I suppose it’s a moot point…

Spiderant requires some BFFs points to stay alive decently (i’m assuming you’re referencing a Fade/Rakk setup of sorts), and it does die more frequently than the Jabbers. Other than that, if it’s up and the elemental condition is met, it should be more damage than the Jabber both in theory and in practice.

1 Like

I usually only put one point in BFFs, may try the Spiderant again with 2 or 3 points. 1 is usually enough to keep the Jabber alive in my builds.

1 Like

A damage calculator spreadsheet/tool based on this would be amazing. Play around with different gear/weapon combos for maximum damage without having to run extensive meticulous in-game testing.

3 Likes

Added Yawp Section.

1 Like

@Ratore So I recently found the best Friend-Bot I have seen yet (+5 BY and good passives), so I have been playing around with that COM some and how to implement it into my Rakk build.

Question for you. I have seen this question posed but have not seen it definitively answered. Does BY work with the Jabbbers? If it does, it does not show on the card like it does with the Spiderant and the Skag.

1 Like

Yawp and jabbers do work correctly. Easiest way to double-check is to unlock one of the health ones, throw on a friend-bot, and see your health go up. It’s just a visual/tooltip problem

2 Likes

Yeah, what Pleni said. It works, just doesn’t update the tooltip.