[Guide] Moze & Iron Bear Skills - Analysis & Rating

Yeah damage is damage, things die quicker. However you’re point starved more often than not in DW. There’s more value in putting points elsewhere. Be it Deadlines for Iron Bear uptime to allow hybrid functionality or Grizzled for better cooldown, even both at times. Skag Den adds the most when you’re running Mind Sweeper and Short Fuse together, but even then the difference has never felt 15 faster to me. In fact half the times I could run without it entirely and not notice at all.

I’ll try it again. I just cant seem to let it go for some reason .

And yes I do use mind sweeper and short Fuse

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I hear that fitsd is weaker than cloud of lead, selfless vengeance and experimental munitions. But how so?

It just doesn’t get boosted by anything(like crits) as @Prismatic explained above. I’m with everyone on a lot of builds it’s not always worth the investment. But I do find that combined with COL/EM on a pure splash build especially Iron Bear splash I still like to put 5 points in it, I find it to be significant enough.

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Fitsd is only based off of weapon card damage?

No it’s just that it’s not in a great spot in the formula for bonus fire damage.

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Technically it’s based off weapon card damage, but FitSD is based on gun damage (as in normal weapon damage including DiB, PD, Click Click, weapon damage on mod, etc). It is not multiplied by splash damage.

If you take the formula Kab used above and look further:

Normal Hit = Gun Damage x [ 1 + Armored Infantry + Drowning in Brass + Desperate Measures + Phalanx Doctrine + Tenacious Defense + Click, Click… + Class Mod Manufacturer Damage + Class Mod General Weapon Damage ]

And then take the one he showed you

[ Normal Hit x Fire in The Skag Den x Iron Bear Damage]

All it is is 15 percent of normal hit in the first formula.

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Skag den is only useful for proccing a DoT for CH, Pearl and Harmaggeddon.

But for that small investment, you get a huge impact.

1 point only, always.

With a rapid fire weapon, you get a ton of Short Fuse procs and when I tried it on test dummy with 1 point in FiTSD and with 5 points the bonus incendiary damage was significantly higher.

Just seemed worth it to me when your proccing Short Fuse pretty much all the time

I don’t know. I’m hardly a BL math pro like you guys , just tend to go by “feel” with occasional testing against a dummy

Strangely though, it had NO change at all with IBs nukes … the exact same bonus incendiary damage number popped up with 1 point vs 5 in FITSD. I Thought that was weird because the nukes are obviously splash

0 with mindsweeper :slight_smile:

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Well a couple things, fast firing guns usually have a lower weapon damage, which in turn will lower SF damage and FitSD damage. It makes up for it with RoF but in the end, it will end up being roughly the same (except high RoF means lower accuracy).

Now you’re also seeing fire against flesh damage, which will make FitSD look like it’s doing higher damage compared to a weapon that’s not matching flesh bar. The math just simply checks out though, feel or not. While FitSD is NOT the worst skill, its first point invested is much much better than the following 4 so for most builds that want to do some serious work invest points in better skills. Nobody is claiming it’s TCP bad or anything, so take it if you like it.


So something I just learned today is FitSD 1/5 does the same damage dots as 5/5. The initial (weak) 3% or 15% is nearly worthless, while it seems to take on the full dot of the weapon, grenade, or hardpoint that procs it. This is regardless of how many points you put into the skill. So this is huge for only putting a single point into the skill. However I didn’t test this, and I’m not sure if the one’s testing it have more to look through. I’m sure they will let people on here know once they figure it all out for sure.

But, this would explain why the Nukes aren’t seeing more damage from it when you invest more points, you would have to spot the initial proc of FitSD from the Nuke, the dots will be the same 1/5 or 5/5.

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Because it’s already on the Class mod? I usually chuck one point in anyway in case I want to switch mods on the fly. I guess I could put the extra point in grizzled.

So let me see if i understand, its not a very substantial increase to damage because of where it is in the formula, and it also needs a lot of gun damage buffs from skills and passives to do any real damage.

secondary to that it only procs off dealing splash, doesn’t gain any increased damage from splash, and is only +15% of your gun damage as bonus fire which limits it to only being mostly effective on flesh?

does it have any major impact on short fuse damage?

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This must be the discrepancy I’ve been seeing trying to test Harmaggeddon.

Yeah, you got all of that pretty much summed up.

It procs on SF, but again it’s not much extra damage there at all.


Pardon? – I just don’t now which part you mean

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None. However if you maximise Short Fuse, FitSD will benefit as it is trigged a second time by Short Fuse.

@twoPIZZA was seeing some fire Dot numbers that didn’t make sense. Big leap from ~300 to over 10k for no reason.

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Oh, yeah I have no idea. I didn’t do the testing Pris and Sammantix were. They have a much better idea of it all at the moment. Could explain it, but it might not. Funny thing is, it seems to just give a stronger case for staying with 1/5 FitSD.

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Yup, we’ve got that over on Bust-A-Bear Workshop now :joy:.

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I was talking about initial fire damage when nuke hits not subsequent DOTS. The initial fire damage upon nuke hit is the same at 1 point or 5 which makes no sense to me

Odds on them having made the nuke damage an instance of dot or something? Explains why it can’t crit.