[Guide] Moze & Iron Bear Skills - Analysis & Rating

Speccing into TRL doesn’t change the effectiveness of Vampyr in reaching healthgate. It’s the exact same with or without it. Rather, at no %value of the health bar will reserving health allow you to reach that point anymore efficiently.


TRL is useful in a bloodletter build only.

No point in using TRL to heal HP, I agree.

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I’m not sure if Behind the Iron Curtain should really still be considered a 1 star skill. After the recent buffs it does make a noticeable difference whenever I use it. Still not great for a tier 4 skill, but I wouldn’t want to put it on the same kind of levels of ■■■■ Force Feedback sits on. It deserves a 2 star rating in my opinion.

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Before the level cap there I ran a few builds were I would put 1 point into TRL and didn’t use a bloodletter. Since TRL is dependent on Max health, it is very effective for increasing shield capacity for small shields like BBB. That extra capacity helps the shield more than the missing health you’ll likely never get anyway, unless you’re using an epicenter or something.

Oh I agree, it’s great for a shield boost. These guys were talking about reserving health because the lower your health is, the more vampyr heals for. Thing is, it doesn’t matter how much health you reserve, the % remains consistent, so there’s no benefit in that regard.
Healthgate is still 50% of max health.

Sorry I wasn’t very clear.

what’s the state of selfless vengeance now? I’ve heard mention that it works on base gun damage, instead of total damage dealt, and doesn’t get the benefit of ase elemental damage on shields and grenades because they were added later and a reduced benefit from phalanx doctrine because it’s also working off of gun damage?

Haven’t gotten around to trying to test myself yet.

Selfless Vengeance is just a normal bonus element. It gets all the same damage buffs that a guns bonus element would get. As with all bonus elements they don’t benefit with each other, so you would get diminishing returns stacking 125% fire next 2 mags, a bonus element on nade, a bonus element on shield and Selfless vengeance.

The weird bonus element is skag den which doesn’t scale with critical hits.

oh that sucks, completely. Reading the skill skill as 15% incendiary of damage dealt I obviously assumed it was adding 15%of my total damage on at the end as fire which could then be boosted on flesh.

I hate borderlands math, I’ll have to do some calculating then, if it’s like that I might as well get rid of the skill.

wow I didn’t even realize skag den wasn’t doing more damage on crits, I’m missing out on a lot of damage then…

Do you know how it works with torgue guns that shoot exploding projectiles?

How do you mean? Like what the calc looks like?

It’ll likely be the same as any other splash projectile calc for skag den

Gun Card Damage x Skag Den % x Sticky penalty x sticky projectile bonus x Gun Damage x amp x slide/airborne anoints x v1 x v2 x elemental multiplier

I still to this day why people say fire in the skag den is lackluster if you have short Fuse. Between 1 point and 5 points in it flesh enemies die noticeably quicker with the latter

Yeah damage is damage, things die quicker. However you’re point starved more often than not in DW. There’s more value in putting points elsewhere. Be it Deadlines for Iron Bear uptime to allow hybrid functionality or Grizzled for better cooldown, even both at times. Skag Den adds the most when you’re running Mind Sweeper and Short Fuse together, but even then the difference has never felt 15 faster to me. In fact half the times I could run without it entirely and not notice at all.

I’ll try it again. I just cant seem to let it go for some reason .

And yes I do use mind sweeper and short Fuse

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I hear that fitsd is weaker than cloud of lead, selfless vengeance and experimental munitions. But how so?

It just doesn’t get boosted by anything(like crits) as @Prismatic explained above. I’m with everyone on a lot of builds it’s not always worth the investment. But I do find that combined with COL/EM on a pure splash build especially Iron Bear splash I still like to put 5 points in it, I find it to be significant enough.

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Fitsd is only based off of weapon card damage?

No it’s just that it’s not in a great spot in the formula for bonus fire damage.

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Technically it’s based off weapon card damage, but FitSD is based on gun damage (as in normal weapon damage including DiB, PD, Click Click, weapon damage on mod, etc). It is not multiplied by splash damage.

If you take the formula Kab used above and look further:

Normal Hit = Gun Damage x [ 1 + Armored Infantry + Drowning in Brass + Desperate Measures + Phalanx Doctrine + Tenacious Defense + Click, Click… + Class Mod Manufacturer Damage + Class Mod General Weapon Damage ]

And then take the one he showed you

[ Normal Hit x Fire in The Skag Den x Iron Bear Damage]

All it is is 15 percent of normal hit in the first formula.

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Skag den is only useful for proccing a DoT for CH, Pearl and Harmaggeddon.

But for that small investment, you get a huge impact.

1 point only, always.

With a rapid fire weapon, you get a ton of Short Fuse procs and when I tried it on test dummy with 1 point in FiTSD and with 5 points the bonus incendiary damage was significantly higher.

Just seemed worth it to me when your proccing Short Fuse pretty much all the time

I don’t know. I’m hardly a BL math pro like you guys , just tend to go by “feel” with occasional testing against a dummy

Strangely though, it had NO change at all with IBs nukes … the exact same bonus incendiary damage number popped up with 1 point vs 5 in FITSD. I Thought that was weird because the nukes are obviously splash

0 with mindsweeper :slight_smile:

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