my basic premise with CoL now is that i see it as an ammo saving skill, and thats pretty much it. redistributor builds are the exception. saving 25% of your ammo is a good thing, but if matched set will give you at least 20% increased mag size it’s preferrable due to increased redistribution effectiveness.
Something to keep in mind with CoL is that due to the way it functions it is essentially a fully multiplicative mag size increase.
Whereas Matched Set and Iron Bank diminish each other and the Mag Size roll on a com or artifact. The CoL bonus doesn’t lose effectiveness. It’s always approximately 33% more mag size no matter your other boosts.
yes, but it also doesn’t have an effect on redistributions regen effects, whereas the other two do. i’ve been finding that in practical usage where applicable, matched set (i don’t go deep enough into the tree to use iron bank) has allowed for smaller base mag sizes than CoL has, simply because it improves the overall regen from redistribution. if my loadout changes to have fewer weapons of the same mfg, i’d go back to CoL, but for now i’ve been getting much better mag performance out of MS.
The other reason I prefer CoL is because CoL shots count as amped shots for the purposes of gun mechanics. That only benefits the Redistributor and amp shields right now, but it could have interesting interactions down the road.
When it comes to mag size increases, I’ve always approached it as making sure you have one of each at the very least - a basic, additive increase (which the passive bonus from relics does best) and the multiplicative, quasi-increase that CoL provides. For the weapons I tend to use, that combo suffices - it’s enough to clear M4 Slaughter Shaft with either a Lob or Trevonator for example and never have to reload once.
But if I’m toying around with an allegiance build and certain weapons are emptying their clips a little too fast, I pick up Matched Set because it will give Redistribution more of a boost besides the obvious mag size increase. If I end up going for Forge instead of Short Fuse, I’ll usually back that up with points in The Iron Bank as well.
I run matched set and cloud of lead together, and that’s enough to sustain a JD with redistribution and it’s refill on kill effect.
It’s funny to see 300k crits from shortfuse and tiny 90 dots from CoL.
I’m not sure if anyone has posted about this yet, but Moze’s Iron Bear damage bonuses have a weird interaction with one of the grenade anointments. Specifically the grenade anointment that boosts gun damage, action skill damage, and grenade damage by 25% for six seconds.
For whatever reason, when Moze has no points in either Stainless Steel Bear or Scorching RPMs, the grenade anointment boosts Short Fuses damage by 25% twice. Once for 25% gun damage, and again for 25% action skill damage. However, when Moze does put points into either Stainless Steel Bear or Scorching RPMs she no longer receives the 25% action skill damage bonus from the grenade anointment.
It seems like the skills override it. It’s a shame too because having another source of possible double dipping bonuses would have been extremely strong.
That said, this does seem to indicate that it can be better to not spend points on Stainless Steel Bear if it’s not also paired with Scorching RPMs. SSB only provides a 20% boost to IB damage, so in the event of using the grenade anointment it’s simply better to use the higher multiplier.
Can you recheck your testing. I’m not able to recreate it. If it persists try save quitting after speccing SSB/RPM’s.
My testing with a Soulrender with 2358 damage.
Fired at the dummy with 25% anoint active gives: 2948
Short Fuse off the shot: 2763
Fired at the dummy with 25% anoint active gives: 2948
Short Fuse with 1/5 SSB off the shot: 2874
Upping to 5/5 SSB
I also confirmed with SSB and RPM’s specced.
Also which platform are you on. I’m on PC.
I’m not ruling out the possibility of it being isolated to 1 platform.
Yeah it seems to still work on PC…? I’m seeing damage increases after throwing and jumping into IB… At work, so can’t post anything right meow, but can later…
I’ve never seen an inconsistency with it on PS4
Okay, so I must have royally messed up my testing somewhere because I can’t repeat the results. I’ve gone back and tested again and I’m getting the same results as you are now. Sorry about that, and thank you for double checking as well.
Just checking to make sure I am putting the math together correctly (in excel).
Does the 125% bonus incendiary Anointment get treated as a separate bonus element in addition to the bonus fire damage? Does it double dip the bonus fire damage?
Yes, its treated as a separate bonus element and no it won’t double dip the fire mult.
Also Holy crap using a splash damage weapon really changes the bonus fire damage!
One more, sorry to bother, where would the pearl of ineffable knowledge factor in?
Pearl is 2 things, 90% Gun damage will be added to Drowning in brass and the like. Secondly there’s a 16% bonus for the actual stacks and thats by itself. You can find a bit more detail on it here Prismatic's Gearology and Math.
Finally got round to giving this thread some much needed updates.
I’ve added Mind Sweeper, Iron Bear and Auto Bear calcs to the thread too.
The presentation of the bullet damage formula I’m not happy with, but its less convoluted than writing everything out sequentially. It’ll have to do until I can think on a better method.
Update to account for the Iron Bear Drowning in Brass change. They made it apply to both arms. Nothing else was changed and Phalanx Doctrine still only applies to 1 arm.
Tested by @Lioness_Rampant.
Edit: Flare has now been included too.
Why wouldn’t you fix both?! Ridiculous.
I sent a support ticket not too long ago where I stated that Phalanx Doctrine’s gun damage bonus and Scorching RPM’s fire rate bonus also only apply to the left hardpoint, in addition to DiB. And I’m willing to bet I’m not the only one who has reported that to 2k support, so they can’t really claim ignorance as an excuse.