[Guide] Optimizing Moze's Damage - Math without Numbers

I’ve temporarily hidden all anointment advice in the Talking Strategies section. I want to see how people use the buffed anoints before rewriting the anointment recommendations.

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I did some rough calculations with the new bonus damage anointments based on my main build. I wear a Blast Master and have maximum investment in all the SoR gun damage skills, so it’s just calculating these factors and nothing else. Until I’ve got my hands on suitable gear with said anointments, I’ve yet to test these theories out myself. But if my maths are correct, then this is what I theorise will be the case.

160% bonus splash damage for 18 seconds will be superior if you’re primarily using shock splash weapons on shields or corrosive splash weapons on armour, which I presume most of would have assumed anyway. If tackling Maliwan Takedown with your favourite splash weapons is what you enjoy most as Moze, then this is the anointment you’ll want more than anything else.

However, the bonus 125% incendiary damage is a major buff and not just in the obvious numbers alone. This anointment would be particularly awesome with Maliwan guns where you switch between cryo and radiation. These two elements suffer no damage penalties when used on flesh, so you’d get the full 125% bonus damage plus the x1.75 elemental multiplier on top of that. Worst case scenario, you shoot at armour/shields and that bonus only amounts to 62.5%, but that would be 62.5% bonus fire damage from the 50% bonus shot(s) of matching cryo/radiation. In many situations, I can see that being far superior than the splash damage anointment, especially with Maliwan weapons like the Trevonator and Kyb’s Worth!

This fire anointment bonus has been buffed so much that I get the impression that it’s specifically intended more for using with non-incendiary guns. It would match with the theme in Moze’s skills that her speciality with fire damage is more of a bonus damage on top of other damage types. Sure, you could more than double the damage with your favourite incendiary guns and that would be awesome against bosses like Tyreen and Graveward, but the level of overkill on fleshy mobs would be absurd, and the pure incendiary damage still wouldn’t do more than the same gun without the anointment, whether it’s shock/radiation vs shields or corrosive/cryo vs armour.

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I’m trying really hard to resist the temptation of saying just use 160% splash it’s best. Even if the damage wasn’t tops the 75% shields is really useful.

The issue I see with 125% incendiary is that the damage isn’t boosted by splash, so you end up doing more damage with the Splash anoint in most splash builds. For non Mind Sweeper/Blast Master builds however I do think it’s her best anoint. Bloodletter especially I think will appreciate teh damage buff it offers.

Agreed.

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Isn’t the bonus calculated off the card damage?

Ie, If you have a 100 damage nuclear weapon with 50 percent bonus and you fire at a shield. The fire damage would be 50…then penalty. That’s how I’ve always seen the majority of bonus damage in this game.

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Good I hope you don’t say it because it’s situational. :slight_smile: Just like with the +75% hp/shield anoint, any build trying to make use of Topped Off is going to hate this anoint. Most of my builds abuse Topped Off save for a couple so for me this anoint is towards the bottom of my list. Maybe the best for pure Moze builds but beyond that, not really. For me and the way I generally like to play Moze (don’t use Bloodletter, not a fan of BBB, no Transformer self dmg etc - also almost always doing no reloading builds) the 125% fire anoint is “best” for me. Another thing to consider is ricochet weapons and extra projectiles (for example recursion). I’ve found a recursion with the +125% anoint and let me tell you it’s absolutely dirty though I’m not a fan of using the weapon but I did put it to the SS test and it was disgusting. One last thing to point out the situationality of them. The +125% works with any type of damage where +160% splash affects, well only splash.

I also agree with this. I’ve been messing with a build that mains a cryo weapon for the most part and this anoint has been playing very nice with it.

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A 100 rad gun with 50% fire damage will produce 100x1.5=150 for the actual bullet and 100x0.5x0.65=32.5 for the bonus element. (When hitting a shield)

Awesome! This is exactly the perspective I’ve been wanting. Topped off usage makes sense. I’ve put so little time into building Iron Bear that my perspective is blind sided to what works best for the Bear.

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Honestly the recursion is just about as dirty with the 160% anoint - just more intentional

However running this, personally i would prefer the 125% specifically on cryo/rad.
as currently i already have 61% between both aoe + splash, aswell as 30% towards grenades. as these are multiplicative to the weapon damage they could be almost interchangeable though 125% is longer lasting and finishes off healthbars faster

Edit* after some further testing; 125% as well as any other magazine annointments do not benefit mindsweeper micro grenades aside from the gunner specific"crit" anointment; best choice is 160% splash

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I’m going to have to hammer this into the Cooldown post I have when I have time to revamp it. It sounds like the splash boost is ideal for a build hopping out and back in as quickly as possible but that shield boost is so detrimental to proccing Topped Off you easily extend cooldown by 5 to 10 seconds (unless you have a band of sitorak).

I was going to ask about this again. The element will carry over to Mind Sweeper micros though? Do you know of the micro will only take on a single element in this case? If I use a kinetic gun with the 125 fire anointment, does it count as 2 separate bullets and it could proc on either fire or kinetic?

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It can only proc on the kinetic, a kinetic grenade will then spawn which as far as I know will get +125% bonus fire damage.


So far I’ve only tested with short fuse, but as far as I can tell bonus elements don’t affect your chances with things like MS nades or SF.

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Correct, will only get full incendiary micros off of ricochet crits; as these will be at random theres no point in planning that into the build; just know it can happen
The element of the micros is decided by the weapon proccing them
Edited to remove false info

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If PTHP procs do you know if the Incendiary damage is affected?

I will have to do some testing - sadly only (anointed*) kinetic i have is an ion cannon so i shall farm some more

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Ok so I already had a Devastator pistol in my bank on Sanctuary and after the hotfix, its anointment now deals 160% bonus splash damage for 18 seconds after exiting Iron Bear.

While farming the Unstoppable, I found another Devastator that does the exact same damage per bullet but is anointed with 75% bonus fire damage while Auto Bear is active.


I was wearing a Blast Master (with 28% bonus splash damage as one of the passives) and using this build to test both pistols. Here are the results:


This was the 160% splash version: 13k kinetic damage, 2217 fire damage (CoL shot)


This was the 75% fire version: 7729 kinetic damage, 8001 fire damage (CoL shot)

Judging by the numbers, it appears these two anointment bonuses are very closely matched, at least against fleshy targets. The 125% bonus would clearly pull out bigger numbers than what’s displayed here. Because the Devastator is kinetic with no multipliers on flesh, it would also be the same if the weapon was cryo or radiation (or both on the same Maliwan weapon) which is great if you want to use such a weapon when dealing with enemies that possess a variety of shields, armour and/or health.

But the Handsome Jack dummy does imitate a fleshy target and so against shields or armour, the fire damage would be a lot less, which would lean more towards sticking to shock and corrosive for 160% bonus splash damage when fighting bosses using shields and armour.

Were you meaning off of the ricochet’s or through an incendiary weapon?

This is apparently not useful towards mindsweeper procs in any way, it does not raise the damage of them even a little bit; may have use with ricochet crits but otherwise this anoint may be best with anything but mindsweeper; in earlier tests there was a chance more than 1 micro were procced showing larger amounts of damage; though i just found an unforgiven with it and it shows no difference in damage before/after; confirmed with a shedfier extremely slowly

  • unforgiven in this instance was dealing 21k kinetic and 76k incendiary after the anoint, micros were being procced at 51k (non crit!) either way increase only due to passives
    -good to note where the grenade is in the equasion; it is multiplicative to both splash + aoe. As here i had (12%nade guardian) 30% grenade, 28%splash, 33%aoe - micro nades are procced at more than double my crit damage
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Thanks that answers a few questions for me. Guess MS is definitely Splash first. Everything else after.

I have yet to find it on a splash weapon; will have to update if theres a difference there due to the damage type…

  • tests with shock boom sickle w/50% shock anointment also shows no difference to the micros
  • same goes for westergun with 75% autobear anoint
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Just so I understand better. Is this valid also with a weapon …let’s say a devoted (so no splash damage by itself). If one has a a 125% fire damage anointment and the other one 160% splash, only the latter boosts mindsweeper?

So, the splash anointment on a weapon that does not do splash is able to boost MS grenades?

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Correct; the only difference is then the non-splash weapon itself cannot dip into the splash; this would only boost the nades and short fuse seperately. (Short fuse is seperate from the weapon just as the magazine anointments are acting)
the general 100% + 125%(vs badass) ase anoints will raise both the weapon damage and nades but not to the extent or duration we can get splash weapons to go with 160%.

  • note - not all non-splash weapons are able to have a splash anointment; i have no idea what is available for which although I’ve heard the lucky 7 pistol is 1 of these
  • i still have yet to find 125% fire on a splash based weapon (ion cannon is to large of a damage source to get an accurate number)
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Ok thx, this is valuable info.

I am trying to move away for a bit from my overused BM build, and build a MS character around the tsunami (to have 4 elements together and generate as many extra projectiles as possible). I have some non-splash weapons with splash anointments, so it’s good that I can still find a use for them by lettimg them boost my grenades.

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