# [Guide] The Badass Jackass- Optimizing the Pet build

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #21

At 10/5 isn’t it just…

Base damage*(1+(0.2*seconds alive))

So a Badass Jack that has been alive for 10 seconds shooting a flesh target would be…

185,000*(1+(0.2*10)) = 555,000

Disclaimer I’ve never tested it, but this should be how it works.

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #22

I tested it at 5/5.
This is the amount of time my Jacks were alive.

These were the numbers that popped up.

Using the formula, at the time I took this picture, the damage should have been 257k (258 if the game does round up). Instead, it’s 266K. It doesn’t make any sense to me.

185*(1+(.14))=259
185
(1+(.13.9))=257.15
185
(1+(.1*3.93))=257.705

At best my numbers are 7000 off, 9000 at worst. Unless Bolster uses a separate formula or I messed up somewhere.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #23

I can think of 2 possibilities ATM.

The timer could start when you press the action skill button and not when they spawn in.

So say an extra 1/2 a second…
185*(1+(.1*4.4)) = 266.4

Or it could be broken like Claptrap’s skill “All the Guns”. Where the wrong gun type penalty is -15% gun damage, but in reality it’s like -13.8%.

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #24

I think it might be the first
185*(1+(.1*4.4)=266.4

If I pressed the start timer on the stopwatch too late, that may explain the difference. I’ll try it again tomorrow starting the timer from both positions to see which one it is.

Although if it was from the time the button was pressed that would explain why they have such high damage out the gate. 246K looked a little too high for just 10 or 20% damage.

(President of Jellybeans) #25

It’s somewhat hard to test numbers with BA Jacks because they’re either getting an elemental penalty or bonus vs all the dummies.

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #26

True, its not like the badasses have a non-elemental attack that’s totally neutral. Every non-melee attack they have is either fire or corrosion.

Still even if its something minor or just messing with semantics, I want to try to be as accurate in the OP as possible.

BTW, has anybody played with the WTF shield? I was thinking of adding boosters to the shield section. For the WTF, the boosters would spawn far enough away from you that they shouldn’t damage you, and even the Slammer should drop quite a few boosters. If anybody has the WTF, can you give a yea or nay?

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #27

I’m not the greatest at math by any stretch of the imagination, but I’m starting to think it might actually be bugged. Look at these damage numbers.

Here was the time. I pressed the start button at the same time as the action skill button, and pressed stop at the same time I paused the game.

185*(1+(.1*11.8))=403.3
Its off by 20,000.

Here’s a second example, only .8 seconds less.

185*(1+(.1*11))=388.5
That one is off by 42,000.

I’m at a loss here. Any explanations?

(President of Jellybeans) #28

perhaps full seconds need to be achieved.

perhaps the badass buff isn’t a new base and instead a pre-existing buff to Jacks, meaning more +Damage might not be as effective on paper.

Haven’t taken my explainations to paper to prove their legitimacy, but I’m throwing out potential explainations.

Edit: I’ve most likely ruled out my latter theory, but it might be calculated from the moment they spawn seconds to compile their buff. As the first test is roughly 8.5% off from the theoretical while the latter is roughly 13.5%. Also that particular stage of buff might not have been active for that particular shot and was instead using a prior buff. Also Borderlands math is weird at times too so there might be that as a factor too.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #29

I’ve got nothing ATM. I may go in game and test it my self later.

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #30

If anyone has a Reogenator, can you see if the health regen effect works on the Jacks?

If it does, and Supply and Demand works as well (can’t test just yet since Nina hasn’t given me an Economist COM), it could be a game changer.

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #31

Think about adding the Economist COM for those playing with builds dependent on Bolster. In coop especially, it could provide great utility in team play due to the increased max health increasing the healing for team members.

Any suggestions? Its not exactly nurse Maya, but infinite transfusions and tons of percentage based healing could make for a decent medic.

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #32

EDIT: Neither the Reo nor Supply and Demand heal the Jacks. I was going to test other character based healing like Magic Bullet, but I can’t take anymore today.

Nurse Jacks, if they are a thing, would be better served by a Protagonist. +Max health, +team max shield, and more health for Supply and Demand to heal your mates with. Don’t bother with the Economist, its really bad.

Thing 2)
Tested out the digi-missile barrage in the field (wanted to see if it got increased damage when the enemy was frozen) with no digi-Jack damage skills spent, and the number I hit on the normal attack ranged from 208K (the original number I had in the OP, and the one I based my 4X damage statement on) to 404K. This was in Crisis Scar and Triton Flats and against shielded bandits and fire resistant kragons. At this point, since the numbers never seem to be consistent with what I got at the test dummy, I’m gonna stop testing damage and just focus on gear. I’ll try elemental duality kits to see if they do anything.

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #33

I need another perspective here. Do you guys have any idea how a Celestial Doppelganger could fit in with the pet theme?

I’ve been racking my brain for weeks trying to think of a way, but I can’t think of anything. Still, I don’t want my bias to keep something that could potentially be a useful item out of the equation.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #34

I’m not sure I entirely understand what you’re asking but…

Since you basically have to stand still with this play style you can use weapons you wouldn’t normally “snipe” with. I.E the Rosie, but the com also boost BFF and Collaborate which to a degree help pet builds.

I tend to stick with the best piece of gear and run with it and not try and make everything work, so normal I’d only use a Protagonist so take my advice with that in mind.

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #35

I was just asking if there was any way to make the COM work with the idea of standing still. To me it always seemed like a waste of the COM to not kill the Jacks because its 2 biggest bonuses (100% damage and 50% health regen per sec) are both activated by killing Jacks, but I figured I would get a second opinion in case I missed something.

The point about the Rosie and other weapons was one I always had in mind. I just wasn’t sure being able to use those weapons would offset the fact that they wouldn’t be boosted as much as they would with other COMs (since you wouldn’t intentionally want to stack too many Collaborate stacks).

(Wh-?! A mask?! This is tooootally my face! I... uh... ) #36

I’d say the Celestial Doppleganger is useful as a pet COM, but suffers from black and white thinking. That is, people think in terms of either running around to pop Jacks, or standing still. Similarly, looking at 10/5 Collaborate immediately makes people look at the top end, where you have 10 stacks. Neither of those are ways that we really have to think.

Consider something along these lines:

From the moment you fire off your AS, you’re strong. Moving a little to trip kill skills gives you a little boost, but you also ramp up if you’re staying relatively still. Each stack of Collaborate is +10% instead of +5%, so you benefit from 10/5 in that skill even with only 1 stack. You can run a lot to get your stacks up to 10/5, or use cover and let Bolster crank up your Jacks. You have skills which make your Jacks tougher against enemies, but you can still kill them simply by walking-- TTF and Resolute don’t hurt your ability to maintain kill skills.

For this type of use, that COM is perfect.

(President of Jellybeans) #37

My problem with the Celestial is it’s kinda the 'Of All Trades COM that nobody really wanted. It Has a little bit of that Infinite Glitch build, a Little Bit of that Grenade Build, a little bit of that High FR incentives engine build, and a Little Bit of the Popping Jacks Build.

@khimerakiller can you first off confirm whether or not the “Elemental Effect Damage” is a slip up like with the Hologram? If it’s actually just a straight up multiplicative elemental buff this com is actually a hell of a lot better in general. (Actually if it is I got a build brewing)

Regardless, back to the point, out of all the build styles it dips in to it doesn’t really dip into the core skills of the Phalanx Jack. It’s basically the equivalent of taking like a CEO or an Entrepeneur and going hey look at my Jackass Build.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #38

DoTs only.

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #39

I understand what you’re saying, however, there are already 2 COMs that can do that quite well; the CoE and the Role Model. The crit damage and boost to BBF are nice additions, but on their own

Its hard to get away from that conclusion. Its the same reason why the Antagonist COM is in that murky grey area where its just a replacement for something else.

That being said, since it does dip into so many play styles, maybe there is something I’m overlooking. I find myself leaning towards Hoyle’s conclusion, but there would be no point in me asking the question then shooting down a valid response.

Can you think of anything specifically that could make it work? I’m already going into this assuming it won’t work, but I’m more than willing to change my mind if something with good synergy presents itself.

(Wh-?! A mask?! This is tooootally my face! I... uh... ) #40

I’m confused by the question, “can you think of anything specifically that would make it work?” How are we defining ‘work’, here? I’ve easily beaten the Holodome Badass round and all raid bosses, solo, using a less efficient version of the build I listed. Since my personal definition of whether something is ‘working’ in this particular game is based on whether or not those pieces of endgame can be comfortably beaten solo with it, I would say that it works.

I’m not trying to be snarky with the above. I really am trying to clarify whether or not there is a specific criteria that you’ve got in mind. I often see references to what ‘works’, or ‘proof of concept’, with no set criteria attached to either.

It would be cool to have a casually accepted way of benchmarking for this purpose.