Guide to the Current Moze Meta - Mayhem 10 Edition

Notes from Prismatic

I am the co-author of this guide, I have offered my assistance in the writing, formatting and testing.

Credit to @Lioness_Rampant for being the primary author.

Thank you to @twoPIZZA, who has graciously handed over maintenance of this thread to me. You can find HurdyGurdy’s original guide here. The format and rating systems have been taken directly from HurdyGurdy’s original guide.


This guide will cover the basics of the current Mayhem 10 Moze Meta. The intent of this is not to discuss what is viable for Moze but rather what is optimal. While plenty of options not listed here can perform in all content we will only be discussing the standard Moze Meta.

What is a Meta Build?

A Meta Build for Borderlands 3 utilizes specific principles to conquer end-game content with the following standards:

  • Minimal exploits.
  • Mass appeal for a wide audience of players.
  • Minimal downsides across all enemies and content.
  • Maximum damage while accounting for survivability, quality of life, and ease of use.
  • Perfect gear preferred but not required.

This guide will reference terms you may be unfamiliar with, such as v1 and v2. These are multipliers within Moze’s damage formula that fulfill a vital role in gaining maximum damage from your gear. A full understanding of the damage formulas is by no means required but it can help personal understanding.

A detailed explanation on them can be found here.


Table of Contents


Legend

Meta - This colour indicates the optimal skill point spec for return on investment; or the baseline of the Meta. You can put more points in these skills if possible, but extra points here should be considered the same as Priority Skills.

Priority - This colour indicates the best use of points outside of the minimum required Meta points to progress the Skill Tree further

Point Sink - This colour indicates decent skills that can be used for spare points only if you have them, these skills can be specced but have the lowest priority

Controversial - This colour indicates skills that have been tested rigorously by the community and are a bad investment. -Not Recommended-


Skills - The Short Fuse Meta

Before we get started remember that this isn’t a build, this is a guide to building the Meta. The following skill point distribution will not add up to the amount of points needed to reach Short Fuse.

If you are unaware of how Short Fuse works read this guide: Short Fuse - Analysis and Breakdown

This distribution of points is required for optimal set ups. There will be notes on each skill explaining if they can have more points added at your discretion, or if they should be avoided entirely.


Demolition Woman

Demolition Woman currently dominates the Moze meta. Any build not taking this tree to the capstone will be sub-optimal. This means the first step to making a meta build is deciding how you will travel down this tree. At level 65 there are enough points that even Iron Bear builds should max this to improve Moze’s damage while out of Iron Bear.

Tier 1

Fire in the Skag Den (FitSD) - 5/5

  • The bonus fire damage has a chance to inflict a DoT which can build stacks for the Consecutive Hits anointment and Pearl Of Ineffable Knowledge (Pearl) Artifact. It also applies a Status Effect for the Harmageddon Guardian Perk.

  • FitSD currently receives Mayhem Scaling meaning that, at Mayhem 10, it provides 93% bonus fire damage per point instead of the listed 3%. This only applies to Moze and will only give Iron Bear the listed 3% per point. At level 65 there are enough points that even Iron Bear builds should max this.

Dead Lines - 0/3 (Moze Focused) or 3/3 (Iron Bear Focused)

  • With 5/5 Stainless Steel Bear, Iron Bear will expire after about 27 seconds of constant firing with a rail gun. For Moze and Hybrid focused builds this is plenty of time for most engagements but Iron Bear builds will want to maximize its duration.

    Note: Deadlines offers no benefit to a Rocketeer Class Mod. Auto Bear does not drain fuel by firing and Deadlines will not return fuel to Rocketeer’s Auto Bear.

Grizzled - 0/5 (Moze Focused) or 4/5 (Iron Bear Focused)

  • Grizzled is the best Cooldown Rate Increase Moze has in her skill trees. Even if you don’t plan to pilot Iron Bear, lowering the cooldown allows you to proc anointments, Some for the Road, and Auto Bear more often.

    Note: A single point into Grizzled is an absolutely terrible investment. Grizzled can be effective at 3/5, but is ideal at 4 to 5. Grizzled is a significantly better choice than Explosive Punctuation (EP). EP is a bad skill and should be avoided.

    For more information read this guide: Efficiently Increasing Moze’s Cooldown Rate

Tier 2

Means of Destruction (MoD) - 2-3/3

  • Grenades are extremely useful for things like: Vampyr Healing, procing Redistribution (Redis) with Pull The Holy Pin, applying status effect with FitSD, and using the 25% Damage increase on grenade throw (OGT) anointment.

  • Some weapons are able to maintain Moze’s grenades with just 2 points. If your grenades are regening fast enough then you can move 1 point from MoD into Vampyr for a Moze focused or Hybrid build or max out Grizzled in Iron Bear builds.

  • The More Than Ok Boomer Mayhem Modifier can make 2/3 MoD viable on more weapons but due to the nature of Mayhem Modifiers this isn’t reliable.

Torgue Cross-Promotion (TCP) - 5/5

  • Being the only splash damage increase that Moze has in her skill trees, Torgue Cross-Promotion (TCP) is a solid damage increase. The increased splash radius tends to be something we deal with rather than take advantage of but it can help in some mobbing situations.

Stainless Steel Bear (SSB) - 5/5

  • SSB increasing Iron Bear’s duration, armour and damage make it the foundation of a well rounded Iron Bear. This is one of the first pick ups for Iron Bear Builds and even for more Moze centric builds the better damage and armour lent to Auto Bear is powerful.

  • There are 2 interactions that are possibly bugs benefitting Stainless Steel Bear currently.

    • SSB’s Iron Bear damage boosts the damage dealt by FitSD.
    • The Iron Bear Damage and Fuel stats apply twice to Iron Bear. This leads to the player double benefitting from SSB. The damage is however only applied once for Auto Bear.

Tier 3

Pull the Holy Pin (PtHP) - 1/3 or 3/3 (Mind Sweeper)

  • Using a Cloning Maddening Tracker (CMT) grenade with 1 point into PtHP almost guarantees at least 1 explosion will crit. This can be used to proc skills like Redis and Experimental Munitions (EM).

  • PtHP can make the micro-grenades spawned by the Mind Sweeper Class Mod crit increasing the damage and giving the micro-grenades a chance to spawn another micro-grenade.

    Note: If you don’t have a CMT and use a Tracker Grenade with less explosions 2/3 might be necessary here but every Moze should carry a CMT.

Auto Bear (AB) - 1/1

  • Auto Bear contributes significant damage and can draw enemy aggro in order to give Moze and her team some breathing room. This is especially helpful for dealing with melee enemies to prevent self-damage from her Splash centric kit.

  • In addition to providing another DoT for the Harmageddon Guardian Rank perk, Auto Bear can proc skills such as; Redis, Drowning In Brass (DiB), and Phalanx Doctrine (PD). It can also help build stacks on things like Pearl and the Consecutive Hits anointment.

  • Security Bear will stay active on Auto Bear creating physical cover with substantial HP for Moze and her entire team.

Tier 4

Vampyr (Vamp) - 2-4/5

  • Combined with the healing from Rushin’ Offensive (Rushin) and Redis, 2 points is general enough to handle any content but you can add or remove points as you need, anything higher than 2 points is personal preference.

Why Can’t I Carry All These Grenades (WCIC) - 0/3

  • Useless skill. MoD provides more than enough grenades and there are plenty of better skills to advance the tree.

Tier 5

To the Last - 1/1

  • With TCP and Moze’s heavy reliance on splash damage it’s not uncommon to end up downing yourself. To The Last gives you access to the utility that grenades normally grant; Redis, MoD, OGT Anoints, and a little bonus damage to help get seconds winds. Vampyr will not heal Moze while in Fight For Your Life (FFYL) but any grenades that are still in air when you get a second wind will still hit and activate it, helping to prevent chain downs. With the addition of the Too Angry to Die Guardian Rank perk a CMT is also able to keep your FFYL meter up much longer.

Explosive Punctuation (EP) - 0/5

  • Don’t waste your points here. EP isn’t nearly as useful as Grizzled, has a weak effect in general, isn’t consistent, and usually requires being in the enemies line of fire which will cause you to lose the Topped Off Guardian Rank perk. There’s simply no argument for taking this skill.

    For more information read this guide: Efficiently Increasing Moze’s Cooldown Rate

Capstone

Short Fuse (SF) - 1/1

  • Short Fuse is splash damage meaning it can proc all splash related skills such as; FitSD, MoD, and TCP.

  • Short Fuse’s card can be a little misleading as it can easily wind up doing more damage than triggering shot rather than 75% of it as listed on the card. Short Fuse benefits twice from certain damage bonuses, like splash damage, as they increase the damage of the triggering shot and then the Short Fuse proc itself. Because of this Short Fuse has become the central damage skill of the entire Moze Meta.

  • Short Fuse also receives Mayhem Scaling increasing its damage by an additional 600%.

    If you are unaware of how Short Fuse works read this guide: Short Fuse - Analysis and Breakdown

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Bottomless Mags

Bottomless Mags offers smaller direct damage boosts than the other trees but its boosts are well distributed across the damage formula.
This means that despite the smaller number the skills still have a strong impact on Moze’s damage. The ammo regen gained from skills like Cloud Of Lead and Redistribution also provide indirect dps increases as you will be reloading less often.

Tier 1

Cloud of Lead (CoL) - 5/5

  • In addition to the bonus fire damage, shots not consuming ammo is effectively a magazine size increase that doesn’t run into the diminishing returns of typical mag size stacking.

    Note: CoL decreases the amount of shots to break on CoV weapons, making them break faster.

Dakka Bear (Dakka) - 0/1

  • The Iron Bear Damage applies twice to Iron Bear. This leads to the player double benefitting from Dakka Bear. This is likely a bug, however for now the skill benefits Iron Bear more than the listed 50%.

  • Anyone in Dakka Bear is immune to damage which makes this a good place to stay safe. Not taking damage also means that the Topped Off Guardian Rank perk will stay active giving Moze 200% CDR.

Matched Set - 0/5

  • Matched Set is Moze’s largest mag size increase and does count shields if they are from the same manufacturer as your weapons. However it is far too restrictive, unless you are running at least 4 of the same manufacturer Iron bank is strictly better.

  • Matched Set does reduce the heat per shot of CoV weapons, which Iron Bank does not, but CoV guns don’t synergize well with Moze’s kit.

Tier 2

Stoke the Embers (StE) - 3/3

  • StE is not bonus damage, it only increases fire damage Moze is already doing.

  • Moze doesn’t have much elemental damage in her skills tree but the buff that this provides to FitSD is substantial.

Redistribution(Redis) - 1/1

  • Using a CMT and 1/3 PTHP can have Moze constantly regening ammo and health. Blast Master and Mind Sweeper class mods can raise this to 2/1 making it better ammo regen than Forge, while in combat.

  • Note: Heavy weapons only receive 0.5% ammo regen from this.

Scrappy - 5/5 (Moze Focused) or 1/5 (Iron Bear Focused)

  • Between the Shield of Retribution Tree and Consecutive Hits anoints Moze typically has enough gun damage but has to ramp that damage up. Scrappy is always on, as long as Moze is moving, making it free and reliable damage for bossing or short fights where you won’t be able to build stacks. Handling, Weapon Swap and Mode Swap speed are also nice bonuses.

  • Any kind of movement will activate this skill including walking, sprinting, jumping, and falling.

Tier 3

Rushin’ Offensive - 1/1

  • Life Steal from this skill works with all damage Moze deals while sprinting including DoTs and grenade damage. Moze also does so much damage that any % lifesteal can near instantly return her to full health.

    Note: Unfortunately there is currently a bug with this skill that prevents Moze from sprinting while she is already firing.

Scorching RPM’s - 5/5

  • Being the only bonus critical damage in Moze’s tree makes this an important skill. The extra fire rate will provide a direct increase in DPS while also helping to build up the Consecutive Hits anoints and the C-C-Combo Guardian Rank perk.

  • The Iron Bear Damage stat applies twice to Iron Bear. The damage is however only applied once for Auto Bear.

Tier 4

The Iron Bank - 0/5

  • With CoL, Redis, and MoD Moze generally doesn’t have a hard time maintaining most weapons. This can be a good investment to move down the tree if you plan to take Forge but otherwise it’s not worth it.

    Note: Iron Bank has a negative interaction with COV weapons shots and time to break. If you’re using COV weapons you should probably go with Matched Set instead.

Specialist Bear - 1/1

  • A single point for a 60% bonus to Iron Bear and Auto Bear is good but its placement in their damage formulas makes it even more valuable as it doesn’t run into diminishing returns with other Hardpoint damage increases.
  • This skill isn’t as restrictive as it seems at first as the bonus applies as long as Iron Bear is using the same two Hardpoints (Hexagons), meaning you can use various augments (Arrows) and retain the bonus.

Tier 5

Some for the Road - 0/1

  • Typically used to burst bosses with low mag size or high fire rate weapons but it can play a role in hybrid builds that cycle Iron Bear regularly.

Click, Click… - 3/3

  • Being Gun Damage so far into the tree makes this skill generally unappealing and with how ammo efficient the current meta weapons are, Moze’s mag rarely runs low enough for this to be worth investing in. That said, heavy and high ammo consumption guns can still get some value out of this and it is an option for moving down the tree.

Capstone

Forge - 0/1

  • Typically overkill for maintaining most weapons, but it is always on meaning it can regen between engagements instead of waiting for Redis to proc during combat. Having this much regen can make using some Vladof under barrels as primary weapons a possibility.

    Note: Heavy weapons only receive 0.5% ammo regen from this.

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Shield Of Retribution

Shield of Retribution is an easy source of high gun damage, through Drowning in Brass and Armored Infantry. It also has good Iron Bear support via the Security Bear skill and the Rail Gun Hardpoint augments.

Tier 1

Selfless Vengeance (SV)- 0/5

  • SV is anti-synergic to too many of Moze’s other skills. The damage buff doesn’t increase the damage of Short Fuse procs, isn’t increased by splash damage bonuses, and requires Moze to stop firing. Combined with having to compete with Security Bear and Armored Infantry means SV should always be skipped.

Security Bear - 1/1

  • Security Bear is a physical shield that projects out from Iron Bear. Moze can use it to protect allies, or even herself when combined with Auto Bear.
  • Even without investing in Iron Bear’s armor this shield can easily hit 375.000 health that will instantly heal after not taking damage for 5 seconds. This is the largest single point health increase you can get for Iron Bear.
  • The shield has no elemental affinity meaning it can protect Iron Bear from taking the extra damage from Corrosive and Cryo attacks.
  • Security Bear will give Iron Bear a 25% damage reduction even if the shield isn’t up.
  • Auto Bear receives the same benefits from Security Bear as Iron Bear.

Armored Infantry (AI) - 4/5

  • The best option for moving down the tree, AI is a minor boost in survival and damage.

Tier 2

Drowning In Brass (DIB) - 5/5

  • DiB gives Moze easy access to 60% gun damage. 3 Stacks isn’t hard to build or maintain making this a great damage buff in most situations.

Thin Red Line (TRL) - 0/3

  • Since Moze has so much health regen and life steal this is almost always a drop in survival. 3 points here will also make you lose health gate, which is the best defense Moze has.

Vladof Ingenuity (VI) - 0/5

  • This skill offers a lot of defensive buffs to help keep Moze’s shields up but the focus on health regen over shields and enemy’s weapons spawning with Mayhem Levels tends to reduce the impact of VI.

  • Being in the same tier as DiB means that VI is typically only taken to unlock the Corrosive Sabot Hardpoints for Iron Bear.

Tier 3

Full Can Of Whoop Ass (Full Can) - 0/1

  • The regen from Full Can begins when you enter Iron Bear, this tends to make it less useful for builds that plan to stay in Iron Bear as your shields will regen naturally during the ride. It can be a nice backup plan in case something insta-kills Iron Bear as soon as you get in.

  • The regen will persist through damage, for ~9 seconds, making it a good increase in survival for an instant exit build.

Experimental Munitions (EM) - 0/1

  • Not affecting Short Fuse and not scaling with Splash makes the damage from EM a little underwhelming but it does give more chances to ignite enemies for stacking things like the Consecutive Hits anoint and the Pearl.

Tier 4 Onwards

Even with so many skill points, taking Shield of Retribution past Tier 3 becomes extremely difficult to justify from the perspective of the meta.

Iron Curtain’s effects are almost unnoticeable, Desperate Measures is gun damage that requires Moze to have low health and with 3 forms of healing that won’t happen often enough to use. Permanent health reductions, such as the Deathless artifact, will give Moze the full benefit of DM but also give up health-gate and generally require the support of the Bloodletter com, which is giving up more damage than you gain.

Forced Feedback sounds good but the crit has to land the killing blow, meaning: Short Fuse, Skag Den, ASEs, and any other outside damage will prevent it. Shields also go down and regen so quickly that it’s fairly irrelevant.

Phalanx Doctrine and Tenacious Defense are decent skills but you have to waste so many points in bad skills to reach them that they aren’t worth, and they are both still gun damage.

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Gear

Moze does not have many options when it comes to anointments, grenades, and artifacts but her weapon and class mod variety is fairly strong. However, DLC3 introduced The Flipper and The Beacon which tend to be Moze’s best option in almost every situation. Outside of these two weapons Moze also excels in using launchers with MoD.

Guns

Flipper

The Flipper is currently the complete Moze gun. A splash gun possessing a good fire rate and high pellet count. With minimal investment Moze can fire for entire engagements, minimizing the cumbersome wind up the Flipper goes through to reach max pellet count.

The Flipper is highly versatile and performs well in all mobbing situations and will boss well.

Beacon

Beacon is Moze’s alternative to the Flipper. Possessing a higher base damage and only 1 to 2 pellets, the Beacon packs a more focused punch than the Flipper. With total elemental freedom and Maliwan’s 2 element feature, the Beacon is another versatile addition to Moze’s arsenal. An x1 Beacon has enough damage that it can use a 300/90 anoint for a riskier burst damage playstyle.

Plaguebearer

Plaguebearer is Moze’s primary crowd clearer. Exceling anytime enemies are grouped up straight ahead. The mag size and consistent damage allows Moze to maintain it with just 3/3 Means of destruction. Plaguebearer is also an excellent bossing weapon, however is often outperformed by the Backburner for this.

Backburner

Backburner primarily acts as a bossing tool for Moze. Dishing out massive damage to anything lacking mobility. The gun has a sweet spot where its fountaining impact pattern can deal the most damage. Backburner can be used for mobbing but it struggles against mobile targets.

Ion Cannon

Ion Cannon is Moze’s 1 shot weapon for anything lacking immunity phases. Unlike most of her other weapons, Consecutive hits is not worth it on the Ion Cannon. Instead the 300% damage to enemies over 90% (300/90) highlights its functions as a one-shot bossing weapon.

A full explanation of how to use the Ion Cannon for 1 shots can be found here.

Class Mods

The ideal Stat sub-rolls on most Class Mods are: Splash Damage, Weapon Type Damage (ie. SMG), then either Crit Damage or Fire Rate. Hybrid builds, like Rocketeer also get good value from Action Skill damage. While Iron Bear Focused builds do well with Cooldown Rate and Action Skill damage.

Blast Master (BM)

A great all-rounder Class Mod that excels at mobbing. With MoD, 2/1 Redistribution, CoL, the Lead Or Alive Guardian Rank perk and some of the most ammo efficient guns to ever be in the meta this bonus is easy to maintain and well worth it for longer sessions. Iron Bear does benefit from this bonus if he is using Hard Points that do splash damage.

Mind Sweeper (MS)

Mind Sweeper is a high-risk high-reward Class Mod. The micro grenades have the potential to deal unrivalled damage but also have a higher risk to do self damage. This makes Mind Sweeper a less consistent option than Blast Master but it can offer faster clear times. Mind Sweeper also allows you to get 10/5 FitSD, pushing that to 930% bonus fire damage at Mayhem 10.

A Breakdown of the mechanics behind the micro nades can be found here.

Rocketeer

Rocketeer is the premier hybrid build Class Mod, giving you all the benefits of Auto Bear and extending it to about 2 minutes, 2:30 if using 5/5 SSB. It excels at long engagements, such as raid areas or slaughter arenas, but tends to lose values in shorter skirmishes due to how much time it takes to set up. Rocketeer also allows you to get 10/5 FitSD, pushing that to 930% bonus fire damage at Mayhem 10.

Raging Bear / Bear Trooper

Grouped together as they serve similar roles for Iron Bear focused builds Raging Bear will provide more damage whereas Bear Trooper will result in longer rides but neither have a significant advantage over the other. Bear Trooper is more forgiving of sub-optimal gear.

Flare

Another Iron Bear class mod, Flare trades the ride duration bonuses that other Bear class mods offers and goes all in for damage. The damage bonus it provides is on it’s own in the damage formula making it stronger than any other damage boosts Iron Bear has. If you use Iron Bear heavily but know how to juggle cooldowns between engagements then this can outperform both Raging Bear and Bear Trooper, shorter duration doesn’t tend to matter when you kill everything so quickly.

Artifacts

The Pearl of Ineffable Knowledge (Pearl)

Between Auto Bear, CMT, DoTs, EM, and FitSD Moze has no trouble quickly building and maintaining stacks. Pearl is one of the biggest boosts an artifact can offer to FitSD.The only thing holding it back is the limited sub-rolls and a lack of prefixes.

Victory Rush (VR)

Being able to roll splash and elemental damage make this a solid alternative to the Pearl. The bonus from killing a badass being V1 damage makes it very appealing and snowdrift gives Moze some mobility that her kit is lacking.

Grenade

Cloning Maddening Tracker (CMT)

Exploding 24 times per throw makes it the best grenade in the game for procing MoD, Vampyr, Redistribution and spreading DoTs with Skag Den.

Any grenade that isn’t a CMT should be considered a hold over until you get one.

Shields

Old God

Old God is a good all-rounder shield but is typically taken for its ability to increase elemental damage. It can also spawn with 3 other parts meaning it can match shields like the Transformer in absorb and Mendel’s Multivitamin in health, if it gets the right parts.

Amp Shields

In normal mobbing Moze gets hit too often to make Amp shields worth it but they are ideal for farming and one-shotting bosses.

For an example of how to use this: Boss 1 Shots - A Moze How To

Transformer

One the best defensive shield in the game, the Transformer turns shield’s biggest weakness into regen. Since enemy’s weapons are spawning with Mayhem Levels a 40% chance to not take damage from bullets, via absorb, is a powerful defensive set up.

Re-Charger

Another top defensive option for Moze. Recharger offers a high capacity shield and its recharge ability allows it to remain relevant in combat even for long encounters under sustained fire. As a bonus the Recharger has access to many desirable shield parts such as Healthy, absorb, brimming and boosters.

Big Boom Blaster (BBB)

While it does have a small capacity the BBB is one of the few shields in the game that can regen while taking damage. The boosters are useful for heavy ammo and grenade regeneration but restoring 60% capacity every boost means it will stay full often enough to make great use of the Topped Off Guardian Rank perk.

Plus Ultra

Weebs rejoice. The Plus Ultra has built in CDR and absorb on a single part making it great for hybrid style builds. It also doubles max health which increases survival without sacrificing any health regen, as we do so much damage that Rushin won’t notice the difference while Vampyr and Redis are both % based healing, making it great for Moze focused builds. This also doubles Iron Bear’s armor which, considering Security Bear, gives bear over 8 million effective health, making it great for Iron Bear focused builds.

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Anointments

Consecutive Hits (Consec)

This anoint does need to build up every fight but with Auto Bear, CMT, DoTs, EM, and FitSD Moze has no trouble quickly building and maintaining it. Capping at 200% gun damage without being tied to Action Skills or enemy condition make this the most reliable anoint for Moze. This is the recommended anoint for any primary mobbing gun.

160/200% Splash

These anoints do not require a build up or depends on the enemy being above the 90% health threshold but they do require Moze to exit Iron Bear which can be time consuming. Being a strong buff to Short Fuse these are both solid options but their short duration and being tied to ASE makes it a second place pick in most cases.

Note: 160% will last 18 seconds while the 200% only lasts 12.

Deal 300% Damage to enemies above 90% Health (300/90)

300/90 is Moze’s power spike anoint, used primarily for one-shotting bosses. It can be used as a strong opening burst for longer fights and can be usable on guns with high single pellet damage, like the Beacon.

30% Cooldown Reduction (CDR) On Kill After Exiting Iron Bear

“After exiting Iron Bear Kills increase Iron Bear’s cooldown by 30%” can let hybrid builds skip Grizzled and keep a reasonable cooldown and, since Grizzled is not CDR, Iron Bear focused builds still get great returns as well. Considering the other options for shield anoints CDR is almost always the optimal pick.

Note: This anoint should only be taken on shields, not weapons. ASE Elemental Damage are the only other shield anoints even worth mentioning but due to how long they take to trigger and how little they improve Short Fuse they generally aren’t worth it.

On Grenade Throw (OGT)

With MoD Moze can maintain this buff through any engagement and 25% v2 is powerful on Moze. Not being tied to the long exit animation of Action Skill End (ASE) anoints also makes this Moze’s best grenade anoint.

Note: OGT will increase the damage of Short Fuse and Skag Den but not Iron Bear. (Getting a CMT should take priority over getting a different grenade with OGT.)

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Hardpoints

When selecting what Hardpoints you want to run keep in mind that Iron Bear and Auto Bear behave differently. Some Hardpoints do self-damage which can kill Iron and Auto Bear in close quarters or against melee enemies.

Exploding Bullets

Best used when combined with the Mind Sweeper Class Mod. Exploding Bullets accuracy and fast fire rate make it the best Hardpoint for spawning micro nades while inside Iron Bear. Without Mind Sweeper the other hardpoints will offer more damage.

Note: This Hardpoint does splash damage and will damage Iron Bear, as will Mind Sweeper’s micro grenades.

Vanquisher Pods

A strong kinetic option, the Vanquisher Rocket pods excel in burst damage. Reloading is frequent and slow making it best used for short rides on hybrid builds.

Note: This Hardpoint does splash damage and will damage Iron Bear.

Hammerdown Protocol(Nukes)

Due to its large radius Hammerdown Protocol is best used in areas with heavy mob density. Cloud of Lead will not give Hammerdown a free shot but will instead fire 2 nukes in one shot, draining the fuel of 2 shots. The heavy fuel consumption makes this Hardpoint a poor choice for Iron Bear builds but Hybrid builds can use it in tandem with Auto Bear.

Note: This Hardpoint does splash damage but does not damage Iron Bear.

Capacitive Armature(Cap Arms)

While this augment does not do splash damage it will chain 4 additional times, which puts their damage ahead of most other Hardpoints. These chains can bounce off of Moze and Iron Bear but will not self-damage and will not reduce the amount of times it hits enemies. Due to the lack of investment it takes to deal so much damage these are arguably the best Hardpoints.

Corrosive Sabots(Sabot)

Since this is the only Railgun Augment that deals splash damage, Corrosive Sabots are the go to option for Iron Bear builds that want to heal, via Vampyr, for longer rides in harder content.

Note: This Hardpoint does splash damage but does not damage Iron Bear.

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Example Builds

These builds demonstrate ways to spec a variation of meta builds each with different expectations for the roles that Moze and Iron Bear will play. These builds implement the guidelines stated above while aiming for different playstyles.

Moze Focused

Skill Tree Link

Even in Moze focused builds ignoring Iron Bear is giving up too much to be considered optimal in any way. This will maximize Moze’s fire power while using Auto Bear as support making it the closest the meta comes to an “No Bear” build. 3 points in Pull the Holy Pin is to support a Mind Sweeper set up but swapping 2 of those into Vampyr can tweak it to run with Rocketeer or Blast Master instead.

Hybrid Focused

Skill Tree Link

This build caters to a 50/50 playstyle, using a mixture of Iron Bear and Moze. On foot Moze Should capitalize on splash anoints and Auto Bear due to high uptime from cycling Iron Bear. The CDR anoint on a shield and the partial cooldown return of exiting Iron Bear early will help keep cooldowns low.

Iron Bear Focused

Skill Tree Link

Used with the Raging Bear, Bear Trooper, or Flare class mod, this build focuses on making Iron Bear as strong as possible without giving up Moze’s on foot damage. Iron Bear cannot activate Short Fuse but it is still too powerful to skip even for how little Moze will be on foot when using a build like this.

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25 Likes

Nice guide, I may move now some points between skills in Demolition Woman tree in my actual build to maximize Moze’s dmg.

I saw three different info in reliable sources of 200% duration (8s, 10s and 12s). So 12 seconds is the right value? Maybe I should test it on my own like AoE radius :smiley:

2 Likes

Never any harm in verifying results. I’m not sure if you’ve timed a Moze ASE before, the timer starts shortly after the fuel bar disappears, so you unfortunately lose a bit of time before regaining character control.

1 Like

Nice guide, really well done.

For starting farming with moze on M10 you only need a flipper and a mind sweeper class mod. The Flipper and the mind sweeper are easy obtainable by using only IB. Just invest a lot points in him and you ready to go.

Moze is really easy when you try to find your first gear compared to other hvs.

1 Like

And if you want the even easier-easy route, a rocketeer com and Auto bear.

2 Likes

Right^ then go make a sandwich while he kills

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As always, @Prismatic, excellent guide. I only recently took up Moze (about 6 weeks ago) and have found her Mindsweeper build to be the best combination of DPS and survival of maybe all the VHs. Really strong.

I am surprised not to see any real mention of URad/Deathless or URad/Front Loader Moze builds. I would have figured that would be within the Moze meta, as it always seemed pretty strong to me when I have played it. But of course you give up a lot of the life steal and health regen options available to Moze when you go Deathless, and I never found the Front Loader to be that good of a survival option. The damage is pretty insane though.

Thanks, though you’re crediting the wrong person, @Lioness_Rampant wrote most of this guide.

Though popular they’re just not competitive from a meta stand point.

Let start by talking about if skag den doesn’t add crazy damage. The situation is then that Urad offers damage thats competitive with consecutive hits but outright loses to splash anoints. The sacrifices for Urad however means that even when offering competitive damage you’re at an overall loss.

  1. You sacrifice Health Gate. This just cuts survival down badly. If you try to minimize that survival loss by going Bloodletter then you also sacrifice damage and suddenly you’re playing a set up that neither competes on damage or survival. If you don’t go Bloodletter then you’ve just signed yourself up to be a total glass cannon. Which can work, however is more a niche thing than something likely to be a meta choice.
  2. Investing for Desperate Measures is also a damage loss. There aren’t enough points currently to have Short Fuse, Specialist Bear and Desperate Measures. To acquire Desperate Measures you need to sacrifice Specialist bear. Specialist Bear is a flat 60% more damage to Iron and Auto Bear, no fancy math to it, Specialist is by itself in the formula and the biggest 1 point damage increase Iron/Auto Bear gets. It gets worse in that you also sacrifice a point possibly 2 in Scorching RPM’s. Now you gain 50% gun damage in return right? Well consider that you already have 186% gun damage (Pearl, Drowning in Brass, Armoured Infantry and Scrappy). To go Desperate Measures you also give up 18% from scrappy so the comparison becomes 218% gun damage vs 186% gun damage. That’s only a gain of 11% total damage for Moze. 11% which is before we consider the lost impact of some RPM’s and the 60% we removed from Bear.

Now Urad possibly doesn’t sound too appealing anymore for meta, lets tackle the other elephant in the room here, Skag Den. 465% bonus incendiary damage that does nothing for Urad. In fact its a case of just diminishing Urad’s impact further. That 465% also receives bonuses from SSB, RPM’s and Stoke the Embers and hence a more fair representation is to say its 465x1.45x1.3 = 876%. The Borderlands community has talked diminishing returns before, I’m sure I don’t need to justify why having diminishing returns with 876% is a bad thing. Put Bluntly that diminished Urad’s entire impact to less than what a Victory Rushes’s 18% damage bonus offers Moze. If we’re still not convinced, I can always bust out a Rocketeer for these comparisons and we talk about what happens with 10/5 Skag Den.

That satisfying for why Urad isn’t a meta consideration? Or can I rant about why trying to optimize bonus elements on Moze is also a sub optimal choice?

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@Prismatic I don’t know why I am surprised to have received a response with that much detail LOL. Obviously this is a passion point of yours.

Honestly, the Urad thing on Moze never made a ton of sense to me from a survival standpoint (as I stated in my original post) and is not my personal preferred way to play, but I did find it to be strong with a Mindsweeper COM. I also know that I see a ton of people running it with Moze. Again, I am fairly new to Moze and don’t know the math with her nearly as well as I do with Fl4k, but I figured there must be some reason I saw lots of people running it, and from the limited testing I did with it at M10, it seemed pretty decent.

Thanks for digging into it and walking me through it!

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I’ve always viewed Urad as more of an anointment for mobbing which is why whenever I’m playing as Gamma Burst Fl4k, it’s my go-to anointment when I want to wreak havoc with the Reflux. But the problem it comes across is that some of the tankiest enemies in the game happen to be so because they have deep pools of armour. Both Wotan and Scourge are the prime examples, but it can also extend somewhat to Maliwan mechs and badass COV depending on your choice of weapons. Up against armoured raid bosses, without healthgate, for the sake of a bonus element that deals 50% damage against that type of enemy health - that’s when I would swap out Urad for consecutive hits or a splash anointment if applicable, and regain survivability in the process.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the Urad anointment itself. But as far as Moze is concerned and when it comes to tackling the hardest content in the game, it kind of boils down to being a high-risk, scant reward anointment in similar fashion as to how Desperate Measures doesn’t really dish out enough justice to warrant the same asking price. In a meta where being commensurate with multipliers on the damage formula is the whole agenda, and consecutive hits pretty much reigning supreme in Moze’s anointment department, she’s already brimming with more gun damage than she knows what to do with. That’s why Gearbox kind of shot themselves in the foot with how the SoR tree was designed overall and how over time, it’s being gradually exposed as the least futureproof of all of Moze’s skill trees. Urad to some extent, is stranded on that same sinking ship.

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@Prismatic. In case of running a Deathless build, would a CH anoint still outperform a uRad despite the potential massive stacking of V1 damage?

It would currently yeah. Technicality, but its stacking gun damage not v1. Moze has nearly no v1 damage. Vic Rush and C-C-Combo are her only access points for v1 damage.

Thank you for the clarification on damage type!

That is interesting. uRad does not appear to be boost splash, but with 8-10 stacks of PD and 3 of DiB, I thought it may eke ahead. Good to know though

EDIT: I meant boosted by splash for uRad

Urad like all bonus elements does not benefit from splash, hence you’re suffering diminishing returns with both skag den and splash damage boosts. With enough Phalanx Doctrine eventually Urad would eke ahead, however by that point you’ll be so far past the point of 1 hitting things that it wouldn’t matter.

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Fair! I am making some changes to my load out now, haha.

The main uRad benefit I was getting was with my weird stinger ASS build since the melee novas were doing rad damage on top of the shock (shield) and fire (FintSD), but I gonna give a CH load out a whirl on this. Admittedly, I did struggle on True Takedown with the uRad load-out

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Won’t fire in the skag den be patched though? I thought it was a bug that it gets mayhem scaling? If so its probably not meta, yeah?

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Skag Den very likely is a bug yeah. I for one sure hope it is. However while it remains in its current state its 100% meta, it sits in the same category as bonus projectiles used to. Pretty apparent as a bug but too powerful and easy to exploit to be ignored by the meta.

When skag den loses Mayhem scaling then there’ll be a couple shifts. Meta will likely go back to 1 skag den and 4 Griz as the default tier 1 progression. Victory Rush will become the higher damage artifact choice and splash anoints will be stronger than consec but require ASE creating healthy anoint competition and trade offs.

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Great write up and work. Thanks

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This is a great thread, thank you so much for showing all the math.

Question: if already maxed out at 5/5 in both Fire in the Skag Den and Torgue Cross-Promotion, when adding additional points with a class mod like the Mind Sweeper —which is the better skill for DoT when boosting up to 9 or 10/5?

For reference, I’m currently running a Mind Sweeper 9/5 in Torgue Cross-Promotion (and 2/1 in Redistribution), and was wondering how that rates compared to running higher points in FiSD.

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Neither makes a difference to dot damage. Dot damage is based off your gun/grenades card damage and is never affected by the % attached to your bonus element. Dots are also not splash and therefore are unaffected by TCP’s splash damage.

For overall damage currently skag den makes a bigger difference, by quite a margin. If Mayhem scaling is removed from skag den then TCP will offer quite a bit more damage.

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