[Guide] Top Gear for Athena

(President of Jellybeans) #301

Yes but the need for reloading is less because you don’t need as many shots to kill.

Need I remind you that this is a bad variation of a gun that isn’t TG comparing positively to the weapon you want on the list?

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #302

Sorry you’re right, its just that the CM is so exclusive. Buuut now the real guns I was originally matching the Octo up against… (I’d forgotten since its been a while, and got caught up in trying to prove its worth against the wrong gun)

What does the (fire only) Party Line bring to the table that the Octo doesn’t? And besides cryo buffing it, what does the Torguemada excel at?

@Hoyle4 Answer those and convince me the Octo shouldn’t be here and I’ll drop it.

(Resident DoT fanatic) #303

Jeeeesus christ, you guys have been talking about me a LOT while I was away, didn’t you?

(President of Jellybeans) #304

Convincing you is a matter of what you’re willing to accept after seeing results.

here’s a brief list of what the party line has over the Octo:

Multiple instances of damage/Pellet
Waaay More damage cuz of Flak (retested myself the shot/kill avg is no where close)
Aoe Damage
Better Reload (minor)

The Torgumada excells at being the most damage efficient Torgue shotty due to its Flak, given that Hybrid Athena generally doesn’t have much Ammo mitigation (if any at all) its one of the best explosive options available.

(Sheriff) #305

For raw damage output, party line > Octo, no doubt.

The Octo does something neat though: it stays perfectly accurate no matter the distance. That’s rare on a shotgun. With it you can pull shots and land all pellets every single shot on the Sentinel’s face. It’s a neat trick, but too limited to warrant a spot on a Top Gear.

…I still think the Boganella is better than the Sledge’s though.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #306

You can’t use this to bash on the Hellfire, and then ignore it for the Party Line. They’re basically the same, fire only guns with splash.

Octo = 12
Party Line = up to 14

Not really, they’re about even. One does direct damage, and the other can miss and does an AOE.

____________Octo_________Party Line
Damage95,820<up to 127,540
Fire rate1.8
The accuracy on the Octo is even better than that b/c of the red text. And the PL’s damage is that b/c it has 100% splash and the “up to” is explained below. @Chuck80 after you look at the whole post could you do a comparison with the Octo and PL like you did with the Boga and Bangstick, factoring in the actual damage the PL might do, accuracy, FR, critability, DPS, ect…? Only if you have time OC, b/c you are the SG master. :stuck_out_tongue:

Here’s the problem with this, the flak its lucky to hit the enemy half of the time. Let alone all of the time. In this test I shot at my feet (Athena is about the average size of an enemy) and the results are in the video, so it becomes even worse if you are aiming for center of mass and you can forget head shots all together. And if other enemies aren’t nearby or in the right spot that AOE is worthless.

The Sham failed to absorb it a couple of times (94% is 94%), but its still good proof.

All this and all I was asking for was a “mention” in the Party Line’s spot. I can do a video if need be, but hopefully not.

(Sheriff) #307

IMO what kills the Octo as an option is it’s slower bullet speed. It’s like a Torgue gun without the splash. I can compare them when I get home, but don’t expect the Octo to shine.

What sets the PL appart is the AOE: you can miss with it and still do reasonable damage. The Octo offers no forgiveness since it has effectively no spread, and the slow projectiles makes it harder to hit in the first place. On a well-placed shot, they are about equal (maybe a slight edge to the Octo since it can be used more easily on crit spots) but anything sub-optimal gives it to the PL. It’s even more obvious on Athena since she can’t correct recoil by ADS, so as tight as the actual spread remains, it’s distribution within the recoil “cone” makes it unreliable, doubly so on fast targets.

I really like the Octo, I think it’s underrated. But I don’t think it’s top gear material on Athena. On Nisha it might be worth a second look since she has an answer for all its weaknesses.

(President of Jellybeans) #308

No the party line isn’t basically the same as the Hellfire there isn’t a comparable shotgun that does better than it. (Unlike the Hellfire where there’s about 4-6 smgs that do its job similarly but better)

Also the PLs damage isn’t nearly as uneliable as you’re saying (it REALLY isn’t luck). Also a high damage component that comes in two parts is key synergy with os and basically guarantees 1shots in mobbing in a lot of cases. It’s extremely damage efficient.

As Chuck said the Octos unique upside (practically its only upside) is the fact that it’s pellets stay in a relatively tight grouping regardless of distance traveled. And that upside is unimportant to Athena as she has a gap closer and has no need for long range accuracy. You wouldn’t use it for its stats alone because a bunch of other shotguns have better stats. It’s not like the bogan v sledge where one has better stats but the other has better synergy, its just a basic shotgun with an unneeded gimmick that just happens to have the same manufacturer as the PL, and for that reason I don’t think it deserves a mention.

(President of Jellybeans) #309

I wanted to take a pass with it again on Wilhelm (90% of his TG choices are centered around TS and since the Octo can Crit more reliably at a distance it just might be TG)

(Sheriff) #310

I feel the need to mention that there is another upside to the Octo few mention (though it’s not that valuable on Athena ) : nowhere else in the game are you going to find 12 pellets for 1 ammo.

There are guns that get close through other means like splash, but since splash doesn’t crit, it’s not the same for some characters. (Athena couldn’t care less since splash is damage too and it also procs DoT. )

I don’t know Wilhelm enough, but Nisha increases bullet speed, ricochets those bad shots, gets more out of extra pellets than splash, has the fire rate to make the Octo fast, and 12 pellets per ammo is a great match for the ammo hog she is.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #311

Before my rebuttal, Athena cares A LOT about the 12 pellets for 1 ammo. Her main Storm build focus is pellets/splash per second. That’s why the Development and guns in the Thinking family are so good on her. B/c of their synergy w/ Maelstrom.

(President of Jellybeans) #312

Pellets per second…at a 1.8 FR… Please tell me more…

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #313

And what of the PL’s up to 14 hits at a 1.4 FR… go on…

(President of Jellybeans) #314

You don’t use the pl to stack you use it for damage, it has a lot of damage.

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(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #315

Before I go any further, when I re-test the PL what should its shock counterpart be? And don’t say a CM suggest something comparable. Or should I just use 2 PLs. I’ll test in Pandora and Regolith Range.

(President of Jellybeans) #316

You can just use the pl its fine on its own

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(Sheriff) #317

Athena cares much more about DPS than ammo efficiency. The high pellet count per ammo spent is not important for her. High pellet per second does.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #318

Again all I’m comparing the Octo to is the Party Line and its place as a Storm weapon.

You talked about instances of damage and DoTs. The Octo has 12 and the PL’s MAX is 14, with the same chance to apply DoTs.

Hits per second

Octo - 21.6

Party Line - up to 19.6

(President of Jellybeans) #319

A storm.weapon doesn’t always mean a.stacking weapon… I can add a hybrid tag to it but I see no reason to include the Octo anywhere on the list. It has bad damage and bad stacking in comparison to everything on the list.

(Sheriff) #320

In that context, the PL isn’t used to stack, so the number of hits per second is not as important as the damage it dishes out overall.

Also, my point was about the number of pellets, not instances of damage. For Athena, it’s all the same, but other character like Nisha get a lot more out of pellets than splash, and while the damage instances are similar between both guns, nothing equals the Octo for pellets per ammo in the game.

I don’t know exactly how the PL works, or how it’s splash is applied, but in actual use, it outdamages the Octo by quite a wide margin. My guess is that the splash of each pellet is wide enough to hit the target multiple times, and multiple targets each time.

If you take the PL out for a spin, remember to try and catch all pellets in flights: either aim low so that strays hit the ground, jump and shoot down or shoot enemies with their back to a wall or that are clustered together.