[Guide] Top Gear for Athena

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #321

Ok the test are done. Before anything I’ll say that on the really small enemies like the Midget Shotgunners where its easy to miss them the PL’s flak helps and makes it like 5% better on those enemies and those enemies alone. On UBA it doesn’t have the damage you say it does, its kinda lower than the Octo. It has similar recoil to the Octo, so its much lower accuracy makes you get closer b/c shooting their feet doesn’t cut it. Which brings up another problem the PL has, w/out the Aspis IT CAN KILL YOU. In my vacuum video you’ll see that even with a SoA it still downs me or assist in downing me. It wasn’t b/c of poor play on my part, and its not worth using a Sham for this gun.

Your post was to late, but I did this where I thought it would be beneficial. But on another note unlike the Torguemada that has 100% splash AND flak that can hit if the pellet misses its not really as advantageous for the PL.


Atmosphere


Almost 500 stacks once.

Vacuum


300 stacks w/ help from the SF

[Octo: showcase][1]


I shot the target dummy at center of mass and it has a back board so there should be no complaints.

[3 splash hits][2]
[1 splash hit][3]
[3 splash hits][4]
[0 hits][5]
[2 hits and 1 other hit][6]
[2 hits][7]
[3 hits and 2 other hits][8]
[1 hit][9]
[2 hits][10]
[3 hits][11]
[1 hit and 1 other hit][12]
[3 hits][13]
[4 hits][14]
[3 hits][15]

With this I’d say the average flaks that hit per shot is about 3. Making the real damage comparison as follows.

  • Octo - 95,820
  • Party Line - 91,100

Making the Octo more damaging just on terms of IRL raw damage #s. After that it has better DPS, better ability to crit, ect…
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpYXTNK8GrA
[2]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/e/c/ecb11fd616cd095595d11d02b922a69a7ac41445.jpg
[3]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/0/1/014091b4fb914c47f7ecaf8bdb76e4b447b7550a.jpg
[4]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/9/8/987d972eb9b93bad43537d3c21c856620fdaea70.jpg
[5]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/3/9/39baf5800fbfa2722a7bf5727ab297980c1d795c.jpg
[6]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/0/3/03423e1a084251e81981f7826e7cb586164935f3.jpg
[7]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/e/d/edc5ab98238109bfae0ce8cab8ea9f00b3bc2c45.jpg
[8]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/1/0/10d4aac6163b2fba760e8274dda4c9593fcc902f.jpg
[9]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/6/8/6805fd2e29ceeb72bac4490ddb83dec74f1551da.jpg
[10]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/4/9/49079cf1894056b2cbb2acab8419762e5ca3f63a.jpg
[11]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/1/8/186d27c97b503a9321c83e193d1f4085dbd71aa4.jpg
[12]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/a/a/aa709dad7d3b204c14e58f54fd1196be15e36208.jpg
[13]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/8/7/8742a4a233d9115939c110da956e696ce5cfea1e.jpg
[14]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/5/4/54da57fc46e24756f42aeae153d8999a6b350bc7.jpg
[15]: http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/uploads/default/original/3X/a/0/a08c2dac922d356dba5e047905eabc2412319993.jpg

(Sheriff) #322

The 2 reasons why you should shoot low with the PL are 1: stray pellets hit the ground, and 2: the fireworks travel upwards, so if you shoot low, they are still on target. I’m sorry I didn’t mention that part too but it’s just as important if not more than the first reason. Always shoot low with the PL, even with a backboard. Ideally, you should jump and shoot from above.

#323

@khimerakiller A lot of good stuff you posted. Bravo. I think what impressed me the most was Hologram, which I’ve always liked. Remind me why it’s not on the list? Last I remember, it got crowded out trying to maintain a top 6. Same goes for Protector. Athena has so many good class mods, it’s just so tough picking the best for a certain playstyle.

Regarding the Octo v. Party Line debate, the Octo looked real good in your vid. Admittingly, I’ve just never liked it going back to BL2 days and maybe it was just one that I overlooked. I don’t have enough experience with it in TPS to have much say in the current debate. Party Line is a Closer pure and simple. Maybe compare the two against Iwajira or Sentinel?

2 Likes
(Sheriff) #324

I would advise against testing it against the Sentinel. Mostly because this the THE place where the Octo is known to shine. Iwajira would be a much more objective comparison IMO.

I remember @Sljm had good things to say about the Octo on Athena.

(Where's lucky?) #325

I liked it at level 50, but I haven’t touched it since. So I don’t know how it held up and I also never used the party line on her either. I don’t recall if it was good or elite.

1 Like
(Sheriff) #326

After watching your video showcase, I stand corrected. I’m still not sure it’s as powerful as a properly used PL, but it’s clear that it’s at least the same ballpark.

1 Like
(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #327

But its not worth missing with the original pellet by sooting it going through their legs or hitting the ground b/c the PL only has 100% splash so missing pellets is on par or worse with missing flak. Factor in that crits are no longer possible and the PL might as well be pure splash at that point.

I’m trying, @Hoyle4 ignores me every time I mention it. :confused:

But in my test it wasn’t a closer, if you suggested as a boss kill there are better options. Its no Development, Flakker, RL, ect… I know all the flak would connect with them, but its no longer TG at that point.

(Sheriff) #328

I get what you’re saying, but in practice, aiming for the torso vs aiming for the legs doesn’t change much…maybe one or 2 pellets, but going from 2 fireworks to 5-6 is a big deal.

I understand that on paper what you’re saying makes sense but in actual play, I always get much better results by aiming low. I’ve played A LOT with the PL. :stuck_out_tongue:

Best results still: jump and aim downwards: first line of contact is the head, then both the body and legs, then the ground is a sure shot. So you either crit, or spawn flakk at the right spot. win-win.

1 Like
(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #329

Just so I don’t have to retest stuff watch or rewatch this video.
The video

The jumping thing is a thing that good in theory. But the short and simply is the accuracy and recoil make the spread horrible, and low gravity isn’t every where. There’s other stuff too, but that’s the gist.

(Sheriff) #330

Why would you say that ?? :confused:

I told you I played a LOT with the PL … I mean a LOT… like: my build was centered around it.
It’s not good in theory: I’ve spent dozens of hours playing with it, in different scenarios, using it different ways… and at the end, jumping and shooting from above is what came out on top.

If anything, there’s not even sound theory behind it: everything is just practice, and the theory behind it was retro-engineered.

Also, the accuracy and recoil are things that the Octo suffers from just as much.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #331

I’ve read and watched your Toy Box build. With your auto-aim and ricocheting bullets while in low gravity. Go play Athena in HHoH.

But I don’t have to jump with that one, and the spread is hella better. :wink:

(Sheriff) #332

With ricocheting bullets, aiming low becomes less important, but it’s still a good idea because trick shot is not 100%. And Auto-aim is just during showdown (which is kind of a liability with the PL since it forces you to shoot at center of mass)

While you may dismiss my experience with the PL based on Nisha’s percieved strengths, don’t forget that at 300 maelstrom stacks, the fire rate and damage bonus you get is something Nisha can’t even get close to. I can’t get the kind of damage output you can, so I try to make the most of what I have, and in that regard, the PL is one of the best guns I have tried on Nisha, especially since I have to make each shot count considering the ammo hog she is.

I don’t know what tone you intended this to sound so I’ll give you benefit of the doubt… it sounds like a dismissal.

You don’t have to jump with the PL either, aiming low works too, but if you jump you get even better results. though the spread of the Octo is fixed… pretty good and pretty bad at the same time: through recoil, you still have bad max accuracy, but now your shotgun acts like any other gun: you either hit with everything or miss with everything as the whole spread will fire anywhere in the cone.

And while a commend your efforts to test the spread, there is a big difference between shooting your own feet and shooting low on another target, mainly that flakk would spawn much closer to another target if some of the shots actually hit them instead of ricocheting on the ground. The fact that you could get 4 sometimes 5 of the 7 fireworks by shooting NEXT to yourself is great news for those that shoot AT something.

Anyway, I don’t really care one way or the other about those 2 guns being on the Athena Top Gear. You guys do what you want.

Peace out

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #333

But mid-air its beneficial, that’s what I meant.

It was a playfully suggested scenario to prove my point about how not everywhere is low gravity. I just couldn’t find the right emoji to portray that, sorry. :cry:

The loss in accuracy from firing is really small on the Octo and it has really fast accuracy recovery. And in my experience aiming low is worse than center mass, and jumping is a no go b/c of the reasons mentioned in my other post. Maybe its just me, but until you or someone else shows me a video of Athena proving other wise I’ll assume thats how it is. I’m not being snarky or trying to make excuses, but I’m showing hard evidence and in the sense of science everyone else’s could just be opinions, hypothesis, remembering it wrong, ect…

(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #334

I liked it at level 50, but I haven’t touched it since. So I don’t know how it held up

This one.

(President of Jellybeans) #335

While I will not concede that the Octo deserves a spot on the list (I keep re-testing and the PL is extremely damage efficient [It looks like you’re missing a lot on your video, as I can consistently kill the same things in about half of the shots you’re taking], the Octo is literally a vanilla shotgun to Athena, she doesn’t have the means or need to use its upsides.) I WILL concede that the Hologram is of use, especially with low-stacking weapons that do work with a high stack count. I don’t really want to give it its own section, I may tack it on to the storm at a later date.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #336

I was only asking for a mentiona long side the PL. I know you’re on 360 (I think) but could you do a video in Pandora w/ the same gear/spec/BAR? I’ve tested and tested the PL and it just doesn’t do what you say it does.

What do you mean by “vanilla”? Not everything has to look cool, have cool mechanics, or have 100% synergy with a character to be good on them if that’s what you mean. And the Octo has synergy, I’ve talked about it before.

On the RH, whatever you feel is best so long as its on the list. @BookEmDano might feel differently about it though idk.

(President of Jellybeans) #337

I don’t really have the filming capacity on Xbox, but you can easily take trash mobs out in 1-2 shots with the PL if you aim it right., the aoe hits as the initial shot brings them to OS range, they can get hit multiple times by flak too and the aoe is perfect for mobbing and large enemies.

1 Like
(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #338

Again I got nothin’. I understand what you’re saying and its not that I don’t believe you its just that kinda stuff never happens to me. Do use a different build or different gear? Is you’re BAR really high?

(President of Jellybeans) #339

my bar is 0 on athena, i use a farily basic storm build with a shotgun duality.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #340

I don’t know whats different then. Until someone else shows the PL blowing the Octo out of the water I think it wouldn’t be that off putting to compromise and mention the Octo with the PL. I’ve let the SS keep the Boga’s spot, dropped the Protector COM, Cannoness COM, ect…

Good idea on the Duality though, since I usually use more than just SGs and mainly use Hyperion ones I’d forgotten about those, although in vacuum I still like the damage the Tranquility gives better.