[Guide] Top Gear for Athena

(President of Jellybeans) #361

The bogan was in a slightly different shotgun argument BTW, its on the list as a mention currently.

(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #362

It’s certainly the best non-Legendary Bandit Shotgun.

For what that’s worth.

There are just more good shotguns than top slots in the list. That was true in BL2 as well.

(Resident DoT fanatic) #363

Yo, bud. I definitely feel you.

But I also feel conflicted.

On one hand, I definitely hate how I’ve shown in multiple videos how hellfire really does rock in air environments (key term here) and is really, really powerful but every time they say “oh well I’ve tested it and it SUCKED” without video proof. And then all the “big name guys” (you know who you are) back him up on his “testing” and my opinion gets thrown out the window and never considered properly not even once. The fact that people are still having the Hellfire discussion and there are people still dissing hellfire from even being brought up in discussion is the definitive proof of that. I really feel the “I kinda want to stop talking about this now, but I know if I do the change won’t be made.” part with my damn heart. I really do.

On the other hand, I do have video of Party Line doing well and Octo less so in the same testing environment. I really wasn’t sold on Party Line until I tried it.

But the same question we ask for Hellfire and Fire Bee remains here: does being fire only disqualifies it from being a top gear even though it performs very admirably in air environment?

(Resident DoT fanatic) #364

I’m guessing you’re talking to me? (feel free to tag me as necessary)

Oh well. At least the video really shows solidly how the party line, octo and boganella perform relatively and what “niche” they take up. It’s just that Party Line really starts to blend into niches of both octo and boganella, which makes the party line very very versatile.

As for Boganella, while it’s definitely good, I feel it still lives in Sledge’s Shotty’s shadow. Like I said in the previous comment, it would probably be a strong contender for top gear if sledge’s shotty wasn’t there.

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(Resident DoT fanatic) #365

Definitely true. Though I’m still salty about Blockhead not being included in part of top shotgun list for maya just because it’s fire element only… what?! It’s not TPS where half the environment is vacuum and many enemies wear shields (and shields actually mean something in TPS) - 80% of enemies are fleshy in BL2! Ahh, whatever.

That’s just an example of really good guns existing outside the top slots.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #366

And by my math a second last a lot longer than it takes to shoot one shell. Not to mention @Hoyle4’s favorite fact that the reason I assume you used “potential” is b/c at least in my experiences not all of the “ticks” happen. And I understand what you’re saying, but just b/c a gun was designed for precision does’t mean you have to use it that way if its better another way.

For @ItsmeJamesAJ [Guide] Top Gear for Athena

(Resident DoT fanatic) #367

Thanks for linking me to this comment. Remember about my video that (well, if you’ve seen it in the first place) that I was using it for the 1st time and I was missing like crazy. Not only was I missing my shots, but I was also missing a lot of the flak too.

But I still melted those skaglickers, even armored ones. Why? Because it stacks maelstrom so god damn fast that with unrelenting and the high stacks of maelstrom (in my testing it reached 600+ without storm weaving active against armored enemies), you’re gonna be SPAMMING out those shots anyways, so some of the pellets and flaks missing isn’t really meaningful in the big picture. Especially if you’re dealing with a crowd (dem flaks)

Also in my video, I was shooting near foot (instinctively) much of the time and I was hitting myself with the flaks CONSTANTLY. I suck at using it but I wasn’t really going down at all… So I don’t think the flaks being able to damage yourself has much significance in evaluating the party line.

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(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #368

Dude Blockhead and Slow Hand were my favorite shotguns for Maya.

Speaking as a former Top Gear author, and as someone who had a few “controversial” ideas when it came to the Top Gear for Salvador (some of which are conventional wisdom now, {funny, that})…

No matter how hard you try, there’s always going to be an element of subjectivity to a Top Gear list.

Otherwise, the damn thing would never get done because there’s always somebody that loves a weapon the author didn’t think quite made it for whatever reason.

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(Resident DoT fanatic) #369

One thing I forgot to mention is that I don’t swap guns much. So little to no storm weaving and free ammo is in effect.

(Resident DoT fanatic) #370

God, that is such a perfect comment!

I freaking love blockhead on maya. It absolutely wrecks. CR+Blockhead was absolutely bananas and it was my go-to weapon when dealing with tentacles.

Also definitely agree on the subjectivity part. The problem with this particular top gear is that it is a lot more lopsided than the other and previous top gears, where the community (not just the top dogs) actually did contribute to changing the list. But I also agree with there always being subjectivity and the list never being finished. Hell, I personally pushed three of the weapons to the list while the 2 main guys of this thread disagreed.

Btw, what was your “controversial” ideas in Sal? Isn’t Top Gear for Sal pretty much… standard?

(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #371

Whatever man.

Use whatever guns you like. Maybe for BL3 you can try running a Top Gear thread and put whatever weapons you want!

I happen to know that Octo makes a better Shock weapon than Party Line, and that’s 100% factual.

It is now. :wink:

The main thing was Flame of the Firehawk getting the top slot above Rough Rider.

Certain of my predecessors thought FotF “had no synergy with Salvador”. lol

The only viable argument against FotF nowadays is whether you don’t want to have seizures constantly.

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(Resident DoT fanatic) #372

Ohhh so that’s what the deal was. Truth be told I’ve never seen anyone run with FotF but with high delay parts I can see how it can be good synergy.

As for seizures, that… is actually a viable point since not everyone plays on PC (the woe is me for being a mac player) and the novas are actually quite bright.

I’d love to make my own Top Gear thread for “the elemental” character, but I doubt I’ll be playing games then. Just a year ago, I was playing games 2-3 hours a day. Now… not so much. Man, being an adult sucks if it means giving up gaming (college student atm). I don’t know if I’ll even be playing games by the time BL3 comes out xP

(edit: now I realize you were saying this to khimerakiller, not me. Whoops)

“Octo makes a better Shock weapon than Party Line”

Not sure if I catch you quite correctly right there… Party Line is fire only, isn’t it?

(edit: I also realized you were talking to someone else)

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(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #373

If you roll with BAR off, all-Maliwan works fantastically. With BAR on, I liked Bandit Body/Battery. Never went without that Fire Immunity capacitor, though. Ew.

It’s pretty simple. It does more than zero damage independent of you actually doing anything. Damage that gives you HP because Grog Nozzle. 2+2 = BIENVENIDOS DE LA FIESTA, AMIGOS

To quote a friend, Congratulations! You are a genius in Pandoran terms!

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(Resident DoT fanatic) #374

xD dammit, I fell for my own setup!

But what was the context for comparing between shock octo and party line?

(President of Jellybeans) #375

@itsmejamesaj

The problem with weapons that are locked to an element is that it requires somewhat an “above and beyond” behavior to an extent because it starts its comparison to other weapons slightly behind as other weapons have versatility.

Me and Dano’s problem with the Hellfire is that it lacks that aspect. In its ideal scenario its only on par with weapons like the FT and Torrent, which leaves it at a loss when considering it for TG.

That being said, we felt, and still feel, that the PL has this aspect locked down with its large, high damage, aoe Flak ( as you’ve experienced). Which is why we consider it TG.

(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #376

Sometimes you need a Shock weapon. Party Line isn’t.

(Atrus) #377

Sorry, just had to. Saw some love for the PL in this thread. :fireworks:

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(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #378

That’s not Athena, get that garbage out of here!

{talks about Salvador some more}

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(Atrus) #379

I am trash.

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(Resident DoT fanatic) #380

Yeah I’m starting to realize that too. And atm I am looking at comparing hellfire vs glitched maliwan SMG vs fast talker (really really good) vs meat grinder, etc. Hellfire’s main gimmick is splash (increased damage and increased stacking & DoT) and higher DoT chance so I wonder how these SMGs I’m comparing it to stacks up (ha) against hellfire in that regard. I’ll do my own testing.

Just an idea: how about listing glitched maliwan SMGs on the SMG list and mentioning hellfire as honourable mention or an alternative for the fire version?

I too feel like PL is really “Above and beyond” when it comes to mobbing, especially against bigger enemies (did you see how I just instantly stacked up to 600 stacks on armored UBA claptrap? Jesus Christ!). I mean, it was my first time using it and WOW.

Having watched khimerakiler’s testing, though, I can see that it is not as good against fast moving enemies.