[Guide] Top Gear for Athena

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #422

Sorry for mentioning RLs. But I’ll just say ease of use aside this is TG, and hitting enemies like Iwajira and the Sentinel with the Flakker isn’t that hard even for a novice IMO.

Just because I feel there might be some communication error I’ll define what I mean by a weapon being a closer. “Some weapon (which is not used to stack said Maelstrom) you use on a single boss-like enemy that you have stacked +400 Maelstrom off of and its still not dead.” So in that regard while staying within the same weapon group I personally don’t see how you all put the Party Line on par with the Flakker/Ravager and Development (happens to also be a stacking weapon). EDIT: The ammo per shot doesn’t matter at that point.

  • Extra - That’s why when you say the PL can also stack I don’t see it as a bonus b/c I already have the stacks I need from Hyperion Shotguns. So the Flakker in these conditions is not lowered in value b/c it can’t stack and instead has a cool :laughing: skill that synergies well with it, Flash Freeze.

If my definition is wrong just tell me and I will change my thought process.

When I tried to use this to help out the Octo, @Hoyle4 said “Regardless, as I said this Is an optimal gear thread and while farmability is a driver it is my no means aa vital driver.” When I said that getting a CM, glitch Thinking, or purple Thinking with the parts you want is really hard. And I offered the Octo as a poor man’s CM. Which had comparable results to the PL in my test so I thought the Octo deserved a mention in its spot.

They’re all just called “Rainbow Hologram Class Mod”


@Chuck80 - “but for my money with Scav shotguns, double barrels is where it’s at.” I think I recommended the Boga first :grin:

(Sheriff) #423

That quote was about shotguns in general. If there was no red text Scav shotguns, twin barrels would be the best IMO.

Maybe you suggested the Boganella first, I don’t know. All I know is that I did.

Maybe it’s a language barrier thing: I did not mean that i was the first to suggest it. I meant that the first time I mentioned it, it was about an alternative to the Sledge’s.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #424

I’m just poking fun at you, I didn’t think you were trying to steal the credit or anything. I just put that quote b/c that’s one of the first things you said to me after I recommended the Bangstick and Boganella. And just cause the whole “sarcasm and light tones don’t translate well through text” thing just assume everything I say to or about you is light toned (I’ll say other wise). In fact everything I’ve posted on this thread hasn’t been the least bit hostile. With the exception (just a tiny bit aggressive) of the last couple responses to Sljm and a few with Derch (I love the guy and his content, we just accidentally got off on the wrong foot).

I only said something cause I was already quoting BookEmDano to agree with him and I wanted to do the same with you. :wink:

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(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #425

Pre-emptive bunny to calm the nerves.

Don’t mind me.

(Resident DoT fanatic) #426

One red text, one non-red text (I tested 8).

(Resident DoT fanatic) #427

Aww, nice!

Here is my preemptive bunny to calm the rustled jimmies

Am I doing it right, master of sarcasm?

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“Closer” was a term that I originally used to describe the high pellet Hyperion shotty that I would swap to after reaching that critical stack threshold where Elemental Barrage could overcome ammo consumption. I had Shock and Incendiary weapons in mind at the time because what I was trying to achieve was a rapid build up of Maelstrom that would generate that unstoppable momentum on weapon swap. Of course, players realized that this could even be exploited with Cryo, Corrosive, and Explosive weapons if you achieve 700+ stack count. Enter your Flakker, Mongol, Nukem, Cryophobia, etc.

So the term Closer ended up more broadly defined. It really began as a simple term for me to describe that high pellet count, high powered Shock/Incendiary shotty on swap after stacking enough Maelstrom.

Ammo consumption obviously doesn’t matter at 700 stacks but when you’re basing your build up on chance, a lower ammo consumption Closer with more shots in the mag means you can risk swapping out a bit further than normal to get that run to max.

Something like the Development I wouldn’t swap to until 400+ stacks. With the Party Line, I may go ahead and use it starting at 250. That way I’m not constantly in weapon swap trying to utilize only my Stacker.

About the whole “farmability” issue. It’s a factor for me personally because I’m on console with no means of obtaining perfect gear other than trades. At the level 60 cap I ran around with a Shock Practicable Thinking (Jakobs grip/Bandit stock) and Executive Focus Group (Torgue grip and stock) as my Stacker and Closer. That was my original pair when I figured out shotgun stacking. Of course there was the Bullpup which was dominant for the longest time but exclusive to BL1 vets. Company Man came along with its superior numbers yet another exclusive from TftBL. And then Glitched Hyperion Shotguns added a whole new element because not only do parts still matter but you can get these incredible bonuses added on.

My point is things got increasingly complicated on this issue of whether we cite the very best regardless of its accessibility, or whether we factor that into the decision. Well both is the answer. It’s not a hard science and, yeah, sometimes there are inconsistencies in the selection process. Like @Sljm said earlier about writing Top Gear, there is always going to be a certain amount of subjectivity that goes into the process.

I think you make an interesting case about the Octo. Could it be used as a primary Stacker in a Storm build?

(President of Jellybeans) #429

I don’t think it can, at least more viably than others, It only has a 1.8 FR.

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(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #430

I think it can for mobbing at least, this is my showcase of it. It has good synergy too by comparison to how much a Thinking has with her.
Octo showcase

@Hoyle4 but going from 8 pellets to 12 plellets (both w/ a vertical grip) helps make up for it.

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(Resident DoT fanatic) #431

Wait a minute, vertical grip now adds 4 pellets in this game now? I thought it only added 2?

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #432

8 pellets = Practicable Thinking
12 pellets = Gentle Octo


Yeah, I think you’re right, just based on your video. Octo is generating a significant number of stacks while mobbing. The fire rate doesn’t seem to be as much of an issue (at least with Storm). I’m beginning to see why you think this shotgun is TG. Consider my opinion converted.

(Sheriff) #434

The idea that the Octo is great and among the best shotguns for Athena seems to be clear to me: it is. @khimerakiller’s demo shows it well. 1.8 FR is actually pretty good. Jakobs and Hyperion get better FR, but nothing else in shotgun land does.

Whether or not it belongs in the “top 5” is another matter.

I don’t think it should be merged in the PL entry because they don’t work the same way, as Sljm and others pointed out. It might be integrated in another entry, like the Thinking for example.

You might thing it’s weird but the slower fire rate comes with a higher pellet count. Overall it’s a bit slower than a thinking since it has 50% more pellets but the Thinking has more than 50% FR… But the Octo reloads less often and faster, so it evens out. It might give the Thinking a run for it’s money as a stacker.

Anyone cares to try both: shoot a dummy until you get to … Say… 700 stacks and calculate the time it takes to get there for both guns? Even if it sounds like a waste of time, I’m curious to know the difference.

(Sheriff) #435

Man, I really ought to read everything before I come up with “new” ideas. :sweat:

Sorry guys, I just sort of skimmed the last few posts and that idea of the Octo as a stacker just came to me… So I had to share right away.

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(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #436

I mean if the thread thinks its that pertinent I might consider doing it but only if I’m allowed to grenade jump into the shooting range. But 2 things first I can already tell you the CM or Glitch Thinking is going to be significantly better in the long run and I can’t edit videos so I can’t splice the 2 vids together.

(Sheriff) #437

Why ? It actually favors the Octo to do it from the normal spot.

Anyway, the Octo is your baby, you have everything to gain by doing it.

All I really want is a time :slight_smile:

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #438

In order to do it as autopilot as possible. I’m bored anyway I’l see how it goes. Should I do it under the best case scenario possible or my normal set up? Which gun do you want to see it against?

(Resident DoT fanatic) #439

Ah, gotcha.

(President of Jellybeans) #440

I doubt it will outperform the thinking/CM because

a) FR boosts from Weaving/Unrelenting will hit the middling FR more than the slower FR, for example it hits 5 with weaving alone, 10 very quickly, etc, etc while the 1.8 only hits 2-3 with weaving.

b) The reload problem you post becomes less and less relevant with more stacks, yellow glitches, (and is almost flat out wrong with the CM’s ~30 round mag, that can be boosted further by Gathering Tempest).

(Sheriff) #441

I doubt it too, but I am still curious about the results.

IMO, this is something that should still be tested even though we have a good idea of the conclusion. We just might be surprised.

And if it even comes close to a glitched thinking, it would deserve a mention as a cheap alternative as it’s MUCH easier to get and is more ammo efficient otherwise.

The CM is a joke IMO. It’s impossible to get playing the game, and impossible to farm for parts. The ONLY people who are going to be using it are those that got VERY VERY lucky, or those who rely on other means of acquisition. Not something we should be encouraging in a Top Gear Thread. I would make a passing remark about it in the Thinking entry but that’s all. (Something like: “If you have the tales season pass and got lucky enough to get a CM in shock with good parts, it can outperform the Thinking here”)