[Guide] Top Gear for Fl4k

Also, I like the idea about listing the weapon as how it performs kind of in a general way, across different builds, and then a score for “if built around.” I feel like that works, especially for Fl4k, because they have a lot of builds and playstyles.

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I think Hydrafrost is HM at best. The DPS is good, but you run out of ammo in 2 rooms? And unlike the similarly ammo hungry Tizzy, its kill reliance means you cannot use its special effect for bosses. The special effect doesn’t seem to proc extremely consistently either.

Is this one of those weapons whereby it loses its hotfix buff upon save-quitting? Because from my experience it is seriously underwhelming, but yet there seems to be quite abit of good word about it.

I’m not sure if the Unseen Threat is TG, but it is defo a step-up from the Lyuda. It can beat Maliwan TTD, and is still one of the best bossing snipers (alongside the Skullmasher and Sandhawk). The Skullmasher IS better in almost every way (except Hollowpoint and OK synergy) - but the Root and Skullmasher are kinda far above all the other snipers anyway.

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Yeah, I was trying to express that idea in my post, perhaps poorly though. For me, the Unseen Threat is just so far below the Skullmasher, it is tough to compare the two fairly as far as whether each independently are or could be a best-in-slot type (or TG). I guess my thoughts on the Unseen Threat vs. Skullmasher are in more of a relative sense - the Skullmasher is just so much better, but that’s not the UT’s issue necessarily. Hopefully my ramblings make sense.

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I’m hoping the Wedding Invitation gets a similar treatment as many of the Bloody Harvest weapons. It is in a similar category as the Unseen Threat where it is still useable, but not the one-shot, room clearing machine it was pre-EP patch. It is also drastically outperformed by the Skullmasher now as well.

@Aaron0000 I finally got a good Soulrender to take for a spin. This weapon is most definitely TG and an S-Tier weapon (under your standard). You want a full-auto version for optimum skull spamming. It is my understanding that the damage of the skulls is based upon a multiplier of the base damage of the weapon (or something to that effect). Therefore, I have had the best results with a kinetic (non-elemental) version, but YMMV. I also run a Urad build so kinetic works well for me there as well, so it could be the combo of the two working together. You also probably want an AOE passive as well, as I believe the skulls probably do splash IIRC.

Excellent weapon that is definitely TG now.

The skulls damage are equal to 20x the base damage of the weapon, as far as I’m aware. The skulls do deal splash damage, though sadly the weapon can’t have a splash anointment.

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As I’ve mentioned in the Zane and Amara top gears, I’ll be revising the list to better separate the gear based on performance in end-game. This is the basic list I’ll be referring to when revising the Top Gears for Zane/Fl4k/Amara (without factoring in their skills, action skills, gear combinations and whatnot yet which would raise their potential). If anyone has anything they think ought to be changed, added, or removed, speak up.

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Frozen Heart should be in s-tier, overall it has way better utility than Stop-Gap.

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NGL, this feels incredibly unnecessary. I understand wanting to convey that gear doesn’t need to be TGTD level to be good, but at this point the top gear list is simply overwhelming. There’s nothing wrong with culling the list down a bit. B-tier doesn’t need to be here for example, it’s mostly inferior options for most builds that clog the list. You could include them as honorable mentions for specific builds/play styles, but otherwise most of them aren’t good enough to be on a top gear list imo.

Also, Vic Rush in S tier and Pearl in A tier is kinda sus. FL4K already has tons of V1 so Vic Rush isn’t insane on them, while the gun damage is in smaller amount on FL4K. Aside from splash weapons and non-gun builds, I can’t think of any scenarios where Vic Rush will beat out Pearl.

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Fair point about the Pearl, but this is just the basic list I’m going off of before I get to Zane, Fl4k, or Amara specifically. Pearl will be S on Fl4k (and possibly Amara). Keep the inputs coming though, I’ll keep little sidenotes handy in the basic list.

As for culling B-tier, the initial idea was for it to include the odd guns that generally aren’t great normally but can potentially destroy like the Lucky 7 or Pestilence, but ended up being filled with guns that can perform somewhat at endgame. I can agree with axing a hefty chunk of it though, got any recommendations?

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I’d suggest for example making Messy Breakup and all of the melee artifacts honorable mentions since you need specialized builds to make those work.

The S tier stuff is looking pretty good, but for weapons the B-tier stuff doesn’t need to be there imo. The A tiers are a mixed bag: Scourge is powercrept by Scourge so I don’t think it or the lump should be on the list. The Bekah is really iffy, it is not as powerful as it was at launch is nowhere near the power of the other ARs in A-tier.

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With the direction BL3 went with skill trees character specific top gears are nearly redundant. Its almost entirely edge cases that makes a truly top gear weapon on one character that doesn’t cut it on everyone else. Moze is the closest to being different as her splash reliance is more specific than the rest.

I’ll also agree with Boom that these lists are too long already. If you’re using something like a Bloom you’re not playing content even vaguely close to the speed things in A tier or S tier would. I’d argue the only top gear here is the S Tier stuff. The rest is just decent weapons. Its becoming a cool gear we recommend list, rather than something we could call top gear.

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I have pondered the actual relevance of character specific TG threads. Outside of niche interactions like Monacle/MS or Hunter Seeker/Megavore why couldn’t a single meta gear thread cover it all?

This isn’t trying to discredit the efforts made by @Aaron0000 in the slightest but it can be a little overwhelming.

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@Prismatic @vCarpeDiemv A fair point. I’m starting to think that perhaps the best thing to do would be to axe these character-specific Top Gear threads altogether and just make one big Top Gear thread to reduce redundancy. S-Rank/Top Gear is what would be focused on with A-rank simply being a list of honorable mentions (without details) that also work decently at endgame.

If we go that route though, it raises the question of whether or not certain guns that are mediocre otherwise but can potentially be as strong as the best gear (such as the Lucky 7 or Pestilence) are worth including in Top or Honorable?

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I think Honorable Mention should be reserved for special interactions like Lucky 7 and Pestilence. These are potential top DpS when built and played around.

What I mean is instead of using Honorable Mention as a ground for the items that almost make the cut, use it for items with special and very powerful interactions.

The worst part about trying to catch all VH’s in one TG thread is Moze. She has some interactions with Short Fuse and MS that none of the other VH’s can take full advantage of.

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Righto. Off the top of my head, some notable mentions/interactions are:

  • Lucky 7 with the right rolls and ammo regeneration.
  • Pestilence reload spam with a Red Suit.
  • Psycho Stabber (300/90) with Stinger and Wyvern (200% Splash) with Nova-Berner/Recharge-Berner.
  • Ion Laser with blob-spam.
  • Redistributor/Projectile Recursion on Zane with Eraser/Hustler. (Questionable if it is worth including)
  • Snowshoe with Bloodletter and Launch Pad.
  • Stackbot with Facepuncher/Pestilence/Lucky 7, etc.
  • Tediore Reloads with Splash Damage (or 300/90) and ASA Grenade anoints.

Feel free to mention more that is worth including.

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Good discussion guys. You guys have me thinking of “not like how we’ve done it before” ideas. There could be one single “Top Gear” thread pinned in the Community Resource Guide in the for the weapons that are amazing on all 4 characters, with a brief description of why each one is great on each particular character. Then there could be a thread in each VH’s forum section where the gear that has specific skill interactions for the character can be listed and discussed, and that same thread could be the place where we ask questions about gear and skill interactions for that character, etc. I am thinking that if a weapon has a specifically unique interaction on the particular VH, you list the skills - or combination of skills - that create that interaction and why. This would narrow your character-specific lists down to 3-5 weapons of each type at the very most. You keep that list limited to ONLY the gear that is good on ONLY (or particularly) the VH and state why.

I view the TG threads as having 2 purposes:

  1. A place for players new to the game or to the character to come learn what’s cool to use on that character and why the skill interactions make it particularly good; and

  2. A place for veterans to discuss cool new (or relatively unknown) gear/skill/VH interactions.

Or I don’t know, maybe I/we are overthinking this? I do agree that the TG lists are getting kind of hard to read. Whatever we do, I hope we will make sure there is still a thread to accomplish the above for each character.

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I would say we could easily consider ruling out the A-B tier weapons. After all shouldn’t the list be for top gear?

As I mentioned earlier, I see Honorable Mention items as gear with S tier potential but require a little bit of love to take advantage of. Not simply the items that barely don’t make it.

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I may include a “Second Cut” section at the very bottom of the main list as just a list of stuff that is great but not Top Cut/S-Tier worthy, but at least worth noting by name.

As for the idea of gear that really only works on one particular character in particular, the whole reason why we’re even having a discussion on merging the Top Gear threads is because there are so few pieces of gear outside of class mods like that in the first place, so I’m not sure if it warrants a thread per character for it or not when there may be as few as five items in some cases. If enough noteworthy items for the case of character-specific-gear threads can be brought up and have a legitimate case going for them (and aren’t too niche) then it may be worth it.

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Due to considerable overlap between the character top gear threads, these have been consolidated in to a single thread:

Please continue any discussion or ask questions there - ta muchly!