[Guide] Top Gear for Jack

(Impala) #42

Will do, I’m not done with it yet. I’m currently formatting based on aurelia’s thread. Too much copy pasting.

(Impala) #43

1 Your Sniper Rifle Anchor Tag (it should look like “a name=SR”) is in the wrong place, so the link takes you to a random place in lasers as opposed to the start of the SR section

Deleted it by accident. fixed.

2 You mention Maliwan Splitters Twice in Your Splitters Definition (I assume one of those meant to be Tediore Splitters for their 3 additional Projectiles. (I now see what you mean reading it again, but mention Tediore splitters as they are arguably better than maliwan with Jack)

splitted blasters/splitters, edited text-included tediore

3 Don’t slash the T4s-R it with an Anarchist it serves a completely different function than the Anarchist (Mainly as a Freeze tool and mid-long range DPS for Hyperion Jacks)

fixed

4 some Sponsorships are off, there are weapons that do way more DPS with a Vladof sponsor than a Jakobs (T4s-R, and some other mid-level FR weapons for example), also Maliwan prefixes should be mentioned on Jakobs guns, torgue on cryo weapons, etc.

i removed vladof from high FR weapons. please mention specific weapons and sponsorships.

5 T4s-R needs a Redundant Prefix recommendation over Win-Win, Jack cares not for the Ammo and its more DPS and proc chance

fixed

6 The Flayer only really out DPS’s a Quad (Which Should have a Light Pink flare instead of a purple in its title) if your not using AA, regardless of glitches. I would separate them (as you would
clearly use one or the other depending on your build alone), or ammend the description.

separated and amended text

7 I wouldn’t have a “disadvantages” section at all, they’re Top Gear. If they have a disadvantageous quirk that’s not just “well jakobs weapons are non-elemental and fire as fast as you pull the trigger”, mention that in the description, no need to bloat the OP with unnecessary or otherwise obvious information. Maybe only on HM’s, but that could be in the description as well

removed from TG, only kept in HM

8 Thinking, Hyperion Beams, Blasters, Everything below Snipers (I might have caught you mid-editing) , title mis-coloured

silly me, i kept using magenta. fixed

9 You got 7 top Lasers, too many tbh. I’d Cut spadroon cuz it really isn’t that great plus i don’t think Jack can get it to a meaninful fire rate consistently enough to make it actually better than other Lasers.

spadroon moved to HM

10 I probably wouldn’t recommend 4/4/4/4 on anything, Green glitch is terrible even on Dahl weaponry, mention if you’re only picking it for 30% chance of other (good) glitches

i found a fox with multishot, it didn’t affect my FR. why is it terrible?

11 Scav Grip > Tediore Grip on IVF, include it as an option

fixed

12 No Luneshine on DLC4 Weapons as far as I know

missed it, will do

13 I would mention a lobbed prefix if you plan on using “On My Mark”

fixed

14 I would put Nasty Surprise over a basic Singularity (I don’t think I would ever not take a Quasar over a Singularity)

i have forgotten that it existed, or that it was in TPS. wasn’t it kinda meh?

15 I would mention Haymaker as an option for Adaptive, You’re trading 12k Health for 5k shield and 7% resist when you go from Haymaker to Adaptive, and with Jacks mostly health-based surviveability i think it would be good enough to include (Better than purple adaptive imo)

never used it. meh, why not

16 I’ll get you up-to-date COM stats in a little bit

thank you

17 Purple Projection Mod, 100% of the Time, Absolutely no reason to use a blue (Also AA is a Free Enterprsie Skill and should be coloured red)

i have never gotten a purple, so used steelblue for that. fixed

18 Eddie’s description is f’d up, looks like it bled into the other bulleted section

this is on purpose. Eddie is packed with bonuses, and each one has a note. if i pile them up in a paragraph it is not easy to read. any suggestions?

19 Add the Best Man Com to TG, also move projection above entrepreneur

wow, how did best man slip by? added of course
items are not in relative order of preference, but moved entrepreneur to last anyway.

20 Consider Adding Dualities or Tranquility to TG Oz Kits, Tranq because the DMG bonus is higher than the SR on non-hyperion Builds and >4 lobbies.

tranq added dualities maybe. there will be too many though.

thanks for these. between copy/pasting and reformatting the reformatted text, stuff goes by unnoticed.

(President of Jellybeans) #44

Don’t I know it.

Dualities would be a general Addition, obviously the variant depends on what weapon you’re using, but it’s the sheer versatility of the COMs that are the selling point. Fire Rate/Reload Speed can help hit caps and boost DPS. Damage and Recoil Reduction is awesome on most weapons (There’s one for each type and the DMG boost is like ~3-4 percent less than a Tranquility), not to mention that there are Elemental DMG Boost variants which are really good in general. Dualities are like the perfect Toolbox COMs.

Nasty Surprise: I saw it on Derch’s Communist build I assumed it served as a general Hyperion damage grenade.

I would suggest putting TG in order of preference, i got burned on that for my Claptrap guide.

As for the Eddie, I would not use bulletpoints for my reasons above. I would either suggest a more general description where you blanket how amazing it is. Or just making paragraph and removing the fluff so the more important info stands out.

I’m off to getting COM stats. Tallyho

(Impala) #45

Some glitch may have luneshines in their description, because I was going to put glitch and purple variants together.
I will only mention glitch rarity as TG, so luneshines have to be removed from those.

i will also remove alternatives of other manufacturers. an anarchist does not replace the taser. sorry, got a bit carried away.
And alternatives of different category. the IVF does not replace the Laser Disker. Well, it kinda does, but it’s not a laser, so it’s gone.

what would the order be? E.g. the laser disker is the best laser for tediore reload jack, but not for hyperion-oriented jack.

A tediore jack has different TG from a Hyperion Jack, and a non-hyperion jack.
YHMS shields are different from non-YHMS shields

too many builds to put TG in order.

I was thinking of separating every category based on build, but that’s too much nitpicking.

(President of Jellybeans) #46

Fair Enough

As for the sniper rifle tag, I don’t think you deleted it (I think it’s somewhere near the Spadroon currently).

Actually, I know it is, as I can see it right after the Rosie when I view the source :stuck_out_tongue:

(Impala) #47

Found it a minute ago.
I’m done with lasers now.

There might be some weird stuff, like luneshines on glitch weapons, shotgun prefixes on lasers, glitch codes on legendary weapons etc. This is a side effect of copy pasting.
Will comb through it when i’m done.

(President of Jellybeans) #48

You never find everything i promise :wink:

K COM Stats at 70 (May be off but as far as I know these are max)

Celestial: 49% Crit 43% Elemental Effect Damage
CEO: 31% Team Weapon Accuracy 24% Team Crit Damage
Best Man: 53% Grenade Damage
Projection: 49% Hyperion Gun Damage 49% Hyperion Slam Damage
Entrepreneur: 33% Reload Speed 43% Shield Recharge Rate

(Impala) #49

Thanks.
I need a break now. Editing for almost 4 hours now.

(Impala) #50

Removed Bullpup, and Sham.
Added Hail.
Will add more AR and RL.

Question: What class mods do you guys think should be added for THOTS?

Also. What is the consensus on Honorable Mentions? Should we have them at all?

(President of Jellybeans) #51

The Hero COMs are actually really bad IMO. There are two that are basically the same and they’re like the only prominent Hero comes and they’re boh Exclusively Tank comes. Hero Jack really needed a better Lean on Me COM (The two currently are Best Man and Chronicler and they don’t really have a good focus on the Hero tree).

To me the biggest strength of the hero playstyle is abusing your big beefy clones to soak up delegation damage and abuse a max Lean on Me.

Hero Jack DESPARATELY needed a Com that boosted Delegation and Lean on Me. But Alas we’re stuck with bad Tank COMs, and his survive ability is better with his offensive COMs

(CDR_Shepard) #52

[quote=“impala, post:50, topic:349445”]
Question: What class mods do you guys think should be added for THOTS?

Also. What is the consensus on Honorable Mentions? Should we have them at all?[/quote]
I certainly agree with the Chronicler, CEO, and Projection mods (Chronicler for mobbing, either of the other two for bigger enemies).

I’ve always found the Celestial sort of meh (too generic or something) and can’t say re: the Best Man or Entrepreneur (haven’t found a rhythm with them).

Bottom line – list looks ok to me; maybe a disclaimer to the effect: builds are so personal and dependent on playstyle + available gear that readers should be encouraged to try out a variety of mods.

(BTW what does THOTS stand for?!)

(President of Jellybeans) #53

It’s The Hero of This Story, ie Primarily Green (Left) Tree COMs, as the current selection somewhat neglects that. The sad thing is the Chronicler or Celestial are probably the best ones for that tree for reasons I mentioned above.

The worst com on that list is probably the Entrepeneur, which would be my election for removal IF there’s some undiscovered HoTS COMs that aren’t terrible.

(Impala) #54

The entrepreneur is far from bad. It boosts three great skills, and Winning is super awesome with a number of shields. Sure the other mods are better than it, but it’s still quite good.

(Impala) #55

Easy come, easy go.
Let’s try and narrow down the entries of each category to six.

##Pistols

  1. Luck Cannon
  2. Anarchist
  3. Taser
  4. Maggie
  5. Pepperbox

Slapper
Fragnum
Repeater
Shooterang

Pepperbox out, Repeater and Slapper in?

##Shotguns

  1. Flayer
  2. Quad
  3. Development
  4. Flakker
  5. Too Scoops

Ravager
Thinking
Striker
Moonface

This is tough. Too Scoops out, Thinking and Moonface in?

##Lasers

  1. Laser Disker
  2. Absolute Zero
  3. Excalibastard
  4. Mining Laser
  5. Splitters
  6. Rosie

Spadroon
Beams
Blasters

Man. Excalibastard out, Beams in?

##Sniper Rifles

  1. Droog
  2. Pitchfork
  3. Snider
  4. Skullmasher
  5. Muckamuck
  6. Omnicannon

An even six. Unless any others are missing?

##Assault Rifles

  1. Minigun
  2. Major Tom
  3. Shredifier
  4. Gatling Gun
  5. Hail

Torgue rifle?
Kerboom?
Maybe the Major Tom could leave?

##SMGs

  1. Fridgia
  2. Fast Talker
  3. Torrent
  4. Cheat Code
  5. Fatale
  6. IVF

Six already. Keep all, or replace Fatale with Fox?

##Rocket Launchers

  1. Kaneda’s Laser
  2. Badaboom

Nukem?
Hero?
Derp?
Berrigan?

I don’t think we actually need more than three, maybe four launchers. Too generic. Thoughts?

##Grenade Mods

  1. BP
  2. Fire Bee
  3. Stormfront
  4. Quasar
  5. Singularity
  6. Data Scrubber

Has anybody tried a Nasty surprise? Is it any good? Should it replace purple singularities?

##Shields

  1. Bulwark
  2. Rerouter
  3. Ages
  4. Avalanche
  5. Black Hole
  6. Anshin

Sounds good?

##Class Mods

CEO
Projection
Celestial
Chronicler
Best Man
Entrepreneur

Looks ok, Hero of the Story class mods are a bit underwhelming. Is anything as good as the Entrepreneur at least?

##Oz Kits

  1. Eddie
  2. Support Relay
  3. Bomber
  4. Tranquility
  5. Precision Strike
  6. Systems Purge

Looks good? The other legendary ones are a bit situational, and the dualities are too specific. Maybe merge Support Relay/Tranquility, and add Duality?

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #56

What exactly is so bad about THOTS mods? 10/5 Bolster and TTF is nothing to laugh at, its like rolling thunder on steroids. Also, Persistence/ Hero Pose are both pretty awesome as well, just as good if not better than maxed out Energize.

For builds focused on letting Jackasses (bringing that s**t back) do a majority of the damage, I don’t think you can find better COMs. Its like Jack’s answer to the Equalizer COM (yes, I compare him to Wilhelm a lot since there are many similarities).

(President of Jellybeans) #57

Well wilhelms equalizer com is pretty bad too. The best HOTS COM is probably the protagonist and even then, It’s not that great, as even with a COM boost the numbers are fairly low (especially hero pose). Also I feel bolster isn’t that great either as combat movement tends to kill jacks more often than not and ruin ur buff.

(Here comes the BOOOOM) #58

With 2 superbuffed Jackasses, movement isn’t really neccessary. They basically become mobile cover, so you can just stand behind them, and as long as you can still kill things, they’ll stay out forever due to TTF and BFF.

Also, 20% damage per second and nealy 25% health on kill is a little low? That seems fairly substantial to me. Considering the amount of time Jacks can stay out, the damage came accumulate very quickly, allowing them to get kills easier to sustain themselves with BFF. It works pretty well to me.

It doesn’t give Jack as much personal damage as abusing Lean on Me, but the damage the Jackasses dish out is high out of the gate and only gets stronger, while DPS goes down pretty quick once Lean on Me is deactivated due to a stray bullet or barrel.

(President of Jellybeans) #59

My Issue with it.

@Impala, I would Try a Protagonist (I’m guessing a Purple Causeless Protagonist) with a build like this and make your own judgment

As for your other decisions,

I like ur Pistol judgment especially since you already have 2 Jakobs up there, maybe try the Gwen’s Other Head because I found its biggest problem was ammo consumption due to that randomly leftward bullet. but it has a nice multiplicative crit bonus,

I personally don’t like the Too Scoops, but that decision seems fairly good, I think having a non-heavy AA reliant Hyperion shotgun is a good idea just because the base AA can’t sustain a Development for very long.

If you toss the excalibastard out for anything it would be the Longest Yard for its higher crit bonus, hyperion splitters are so much better than beams there’s like no contest.

Snipers are fine, I would suggest testing things like the invader and fremington’s edge for hyperion snipers just cuz you probably need at least one and I don’t see the omni cannon being that one. I might also consider a dahl sniper (Something like a Sniper or a Terror) just because a pseudo-infinite Red Glitch is scary.

I would at the Very least consider a Wild or Slippery Vladof Barrel/Grip Torgue Rifle, it hits 5 FR Base and has a very high base damage and 90% Splash.

Fox isn’t that special iirc, I’d just keep the fatale there unless you plan to pseudo merge it into the CC. Edit: Merge it as I think I have reason to believe there’s a super synergistic DPS machine in the Meat Grinder for Jack.

I would humor a Nukem Duurp addition to launchers, they’re both different enough from the first 2 to warrant the spot. Is a Hero a base Vladof?

Fine with the shields

As i said try the protagonist, if you like it better than the entrepeneur (especially considering its like the 4/5th best GG COM) i’d replace.

I would add Dualities, you can basically make any build work with them, They’re like elemental relics in vacuum and super tranquilities in atmosphere.

As for nades there’s like no point putting a worse quasar in TG. If ur using a singularity ur using it for the pull and the quasars got the best pull. The Nasty Surprise serves as the Hyperion Jacks cryo/damage grenade, its a lonbow MIRV that’s drops its sh!t above enemies, or all four on the same guy if ur one on one. You’ve included other Hyperion stuff for way worse reasons than mine. Also singularities are fairly crappy for other elements so there’s really no reason to pick one instead of a quasar.

(Impala) #60

##Pistols

Pepperbox out, Repeater and Shooterang in.
The Slapper should be in, but what would it replace?

##Shotguns

Too Scoops out, Thinking and Moonface in

##Lasers

Excalibastard out, Longest Yard in.

##Assault Rifles

Torgue rifle in.
Should the Kerboom replace Major Tom?

##SMGs

Cheat Code merged with Fatale, to add Meat Grinder

##Rocket Launchers

Duurp and Nukem in.

##Grenade Mods

Nasty surprise replaces purple singularities.

##Oz Kits

I will merge Support Relay and Tranquility to add Dualities.

(President of Jellybeans) #61

Brief Point on the Meat Grinder, The Ideal prefixes are True-Blue (Damage), Kwik Load’d (Reload Speed), or Kwikner (Bullet Speed) [I like this one the most as it smoothes over his FR just so he doesn’t need all of his conditional FR boosts working at max efficiency or a Vladof Sponsor to hit its cap]. I also recommend the Kwikner because it lets you use the Dahl Sponsor which is fricken amazing imo.

Other than that I approve this list so hard.

1 Like