[Guide] Top Gear for Lady Hammerlock

(Sheriff) #101

Yeah, that’s what I meant: no they don’t.

Like I said, a bigger base damage will result in a bigger boost, but the gun with the higher fire rate will get to apply it more often.

In short, as far as DPS is concerned, the base damage doesn’t change anything: a 30% damage boost is a 30% DPS increase for any gun.

Sure, the bigger gun has more chance to be able to one-shot something after the boost, but we’re talking full-auto pistols with deep mags, so one-shotting things is not the point here.

(dontpokesmot21) #102

that’s why I said it was a tongue in cheek kind of thing. i know its the same across the board DPS wise. but the number is bigger lol.

i just felt that it performed way better as a side-arm than the revolution

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #103

The revolution isn’t really that good of a gun, don’t get me wrong its still an Anarchist and those are really good pistols. But it trades up stats for a really stupid gimmick. So even glitch-less a glitch Anarchist will preform better.

(dontpokesmot21) #104

then throw glitched bandit pistols up there, you go large caliber and still getway more time with the glitch.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #105

And more time without. Glitch Scav pistols are not TG by a long shot. Not that you should care with your play style specifically, after 7 seconds you lose that 77% fire rate increase the makes the Zim and Anarchist more comparable.

(Resident DoT fanatic) #106

Yeah, it’s really really really hard to beat vladof pistol (forgot the name) for ice pistol. The DPS is just too damn crazy.

(dontpokesmot21) #107

It absolutely is. but when you are able to kill 3-4 enemies in a single mag, things start to even out, every time you reload with a anarchist, the banidt pistol will catch up. and then theres the the frame rate cap. Meaning unless you can get almost 200% fire rate boosts on a character, the Anarchist caps out at around 40%.

All i’m saying is try a bandit pistol next time you have one. Not having to reload as often means I can take out lesser mobs quicker one after the other.

just the other day II took out Two Bad ass scavs and a lesser scav without reloading. pretty much leading me to make this post, lol.

but like others have said, maybe the Zim just works better for my play-style. because it absolutely outperformed the revolution I had at 63.

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #108

This is only true for last gen consoles. New gen and PC have better caps.
60/1 = 60
60/2 = 30
60/3 = 20
60/4 = 15
60/5 = 12
60/6 = 10

So if this is true for you the (damage) Anarchist gets…
11.4 x (1+1) = 22.8 rounded to 20

(fire rate) Zim gets…
5.1 x (1+1) = 10.2 rounded to 10

I’m not arguing against the Zim, I’m just showing you one of the advantages you think it has doesn’t apply to 2/3 of the community. Not that most Aurelia’s have that kind of FR anyway, most have about ~30% in my experience.

(President of Jellybeans) #109

Even on older consoles its still 15 FR over 10 you’re still winning by a long shot

(dontpokesmot21) #110

yea I’m on 360, so i speak from that perspective.

and 15 over ten isn’t winning by a long shot when you factor in other boosts, mag size difference, etc.

I wasn’t planning on getting into a huge debate, i just thought the Zim deserved to be up there because of its synergy with Large Caliber.

and yea, Aurelia doesn’t have a lot of fire rate boosts, thats correct. not a lot of unconditional reload speed boosts either. she gets those on a lot of COM’s though.

If i track down a zim and a revolution at the same level, i’ll be able to do a better comparison.

(dontpokesmot21) #111

there was a post awhile ago on the BL2 forums about “Bandit Math” that went over how bandit weapons aren’t necessarily as bad as they appear on the card once you start to see how boosts affect them.

TPS’s softer scaling and UVHM makes them the best Mobbing weapons, imo. Not having to reload as often is a huge boon in the time it takes to kill multiple enemies.

(Sheriff) #112

Not quite
Consider the pistols posted above (I know the Zim has higher damage, but it’S less relevant here)
Anarchist has a reload speed of 1.7 and reloads every 67 bullets
Bandit pistol has a mag size of 111 and a reload speed of 2.5

So the Anarchist spends 0.0253 seconds per bullet on reloads
while the Bandit spends 0.0225 seconds … a SMALL advantage, not enough by a long shot to catch up with a gun that has more than twice the fire rate (or at least 1.5X in the best case for the Zim)

I get what you mean: since there are fire rate caps, a slow but powerful pistol is better than a weak fast one because the slow one has more room to grow (as well as consuming less ammo for the same output and comparatively spending less time reloading)

…But that’s assuming equal DPS to start.

At equal DPS you are right: you’re better off with the slower gun.
But if the faster gun has MORE DPS to begin with, you may have a small window where you can catch up because the other one may get caught in the dip between 2 caps.

So, 2 questions:
1: Are those 2 guns close enough in DPS for that point to actually exist (or does even in the worst possible scenario, the Anarchist still has higher DPS) ?
and 2: Can this point reasonably be reached with Aurelia’s skills ?

In question 1, we could assume the best case for the Zim would be on last gen consoles as they have the most restrictive frame rates.

Since the anarchist starts between 11 and 12.7, we can safely discard anything below 15: the same bonus would not even allow the Zim to reach 6. So the only possible point would be one that leaves the Anarchist just below 30 while pushing the Zim above 10. Anything more and the Anarchist goes over 30 and we’re out of contention.

A bonus of that size would be around 100% and would push a perfectly parted Zim (parted for speed of course) just over 10.

THAT …is the only POSSIBLE point where the Zim can overtake the Anarchist.

What does a level 70 Zim’s card look like ?

(dontpokesmot21) #113

i don’t know, I recently saw at 63 that was around 10k so about 2-3k more damage compared to my revolution at 63, which was 7 something. I’ll check again when i get on to play.

(dontpokesmot21) #114

and the fact that a Zim might even be able to catch up to an Anarchist is huge as all i said earlier is that the DPS difference isn’t as large as you may think.

ok here are some stats for a 63 Zim and a 63 Revolution, both cryo.

Increas’d Zim-hyperion grip. 10282 damage. 88.6 acc, 4.3 fire rate, 3.5 reload speed, 151 mag size.

Vengeful Revolution- Torgue grip. 7366 damage, 86.7 accuracy, 10.6 fire rate, 2.4 reload speed, 46 mag size.

Large Caliber’d Mag Sizes- 86 for the Zim and 26 for the Revolution.

I’d do the other calculations for large caliber but its actually my birthday and I have to run, later all!

(Sheriff) #115

Happy Birthday! :gift::birthday::tada:

(dontpokesmot21) #116

Thanks for the Birthday Wishes, Chuck.

I’m gonna try to tackle Large Caliber DPS between the two lvl 63 weapons.

reload speed formula is BaseReloadSpeed/(1+Buff)= X


If so, Large Caliber Stats for those two weapons, Zim and Revolution would be

Zim- 15423 dmg, 2.8 Reload Speed, 4.3 Fire Rate and 86 Magazine Size.

Revolution - 11049 dmg, 2.08 reload speed, 10.6 fire rate, 26 mag size

I don’t know if I did it right, but I got 63145 for the revolution and 58174 for the Zim. I divided mag size by fire rate, added reload speed to that number, then divided total damage in the magazine by that number.

so Dmg*Mag/(MagSize/FireRate+ReloadSpeed)

i’m pretty rusty on my math but I think that’s right.

I’m pretty happy with the results, lol. factor in some fire rate boosts and things could get interesting. 10% isn’t that much.

(Sheriff) #117

It’s true that large caliber is an important factor here, one that I might have overlooked. While the Zim’s mag size was so large that it starter to no longer have an impact (over 100 or over 200 changes little, both mean you will reload only between fights) Large caliber brings it down a lot.
Is there a COM that boosts it ?

one thing though: You should compare an Anarchist to the Zim, not a Revolution. 2 reasons:

1: Anarchists can have glitches, which increases mag size (and make the gun better) If you can pre-roll a glitch by reloading after a single shot, you can either get a good headstart against a boss or keep a Yellow glitch running for a LOOOOONG time, effectively mitigating the mag size issue.
Not that any of those factors should be included in the DPS calculation, but the glitched version is what will be suggested in TG anyway.

and 2: The Revolution’s mag size is … well, it makes little sense to plug it in a calculator. If you wait long enough, it will hold all your bullets :stuck_out_tongue:
So using it in a DPS calculation is both inacurate …and absurd :stuck_out_tongue:

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #118

Yes, her Holodome High Definition.

@bigrobb2389 @Chuck80 If you want to give me the conditions I can get the guns and do some math based comparisons.

I.E prefix, build, com, ect…

(Sheriff) #119

Ok, So Rapider Zim, Scav grip


Purging anarchist, Vladof grip, Glitched

Considering 10/5 large caliber (just factor in the mag size from it, the other bonus should even out anyway)

(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #120

I’ll go 11/5 since the more points you have in the skill the more you get out of it, and the 3rd skill doesn’t really help out pistols.