I’m planning to do a revision later this on week (after the hotfix - if there is one).
These are (roughly) the planned changes:
Crossroads demoted to HM.
Ogre demoted to HM.
Faisor demoted to HM.
Butcher demoted to HM.
Lyuda demoted to HM.
Protuberance added to HM.
Ion Cannon added to TG.
Ruby’s Wrath added to HM.
Front Loader removed.
Bloodletter demoted to HM.
Raging Bear demoted to HM.
Artifact section to be revamped. (I want to include recommendations for the top and bottom components separately as well as useful combinations).
I am considering moving Q-System and Laser-Sploder to HM but I haven’t given them a fair try in M4 yet.
I am also considering the following weapons/grenades among others (Scoville, Creamer, EMP5, Night Hawkins, Brainstormer, Tediore Everblasts and Nuke Cluster-effs.)
As for Mindsweeper, I (unfortunately) have not played much with it. I will add it if enough people argue for it. If anyone has skill and weapons recommendations to go with it (so that I can test it), I would appreciate them.
+1 for mindsweeper with + splash damage (grenade and / or weapon type damage for better results);
Can’t say i have it all figured out; still finding random weapons that work best for it.
hex can still work with it at a decent rate as well (not shock) though epicenter is better for burst healing
How my trees look currently is Here
torgue = craps, cerberus, alchemist, polishers
maliwan = kybs worth, westergun, nebula, devourer
random = tediore lurkshot, jackhammer for chucking, lucky 7
Before the arrival of M4, the assault rifle category was probably the one weapon category I tested the most with Moze. I even went hunting for non-legendary Vladof, Torgue and Dahl assault rifles to see if there were any hidden gems. I went over and over again with weapons like the Ogre, Faisor, Alchemist, Amber Management, Q-System, etc. But no matter how I utilised them or tried to focus builds on them, I always ended up reverting back to the Laser Sploder. Then when M4 came along, it became more of an obvious choice in my eyes. It still would’ve been one of my main mobbing weapons today if it wasn’t for the Lucky 7. But for ARs, I’d say it’s still TG, more so than the Ogre or Faisor in DPS for sure.
I only know of the EMP5 and Night Hawkin because these were the two SMGs I had in mind for my WIP build with Fl4k. The EMP5 (at least the one drop I got) only fires 2 bullets per burst and is always kinetic but there’s almost no delay between bursts iirc. You have to keep jumping with it though to score bonus damage and make the shots more accurate.
I tried the Night Hawkin and it felt better than the EMP5. More shots in bursts, also barely any delay between bursts, bigger magazine size, and from 18:00 onwards (on the in-game clock) that’s when it switches to dishing out fire damage with 3 pellets per 1 SMG bullet. Even against shielded and fire-resistant enemies, the Night Hawkin in the hands of my Fl4k was shredding through them and my WIP build doesn’t use Fade Away or have a single point spent in the Hunter tree either. I haven’t actually used the gun with Moze, but she has her fire damage skills and she also wears a wristwatch which tells you the in-game time which is great for knowing when to start using it.
Updated. I still have to add the Protuberance and the Ruby’s Wrath (I forgot to get screenshots while playing), but I’ll do that when I next log on.
Let me know what you think of the artifacts section and/or if I missed anything. I am also looking to modify the class mod section with recommendations for the skills but I don’t trust my own opinions here, so hoping to see my input.
I have the same experience with ARs (although I haven’t tried Jakobs ones yet). Q-System also seems okay, but so far the Laser-Sploder just stands out.
I have some spare EMP5s. If you are looking for a full-auto version I can check to see if I have one and send it to you (if you are on PC). Those might feel as good as the Night Hawkin.
I’m not really sure recommending skills is a good thing on class mods. To me at least the best variation is very build and weapon dependent. Also did you test the Mind Sweeper and where unimpressed or just forget to include it?
I like the look of the Relic section. I think it’s a good upgrade over what we had and is easy to find recommendations for what you want.
Noted on Class Mods. I would still like to hear people’s thoughts about it though, to see if there are general agreements about them.
As for Mind Sweeper, I am still testing it. So far I haven’t done much besides jerry-rigging my BM/SoR Build to accommodate it but I’ve been pretty happy with how it performs with some of the weapons I’ve tried.
There was some brief discussion of it earlier, but I wanted to second that the Spring Epicenter should absolutely be considered TG for Moze. Insane damage, hits on impact, pairs perfectly with Vampyr.
Something that I don’t see getting too much love is the Rocketeer COM. I’d nominate if for honorable mention. It provides a lot of strategic variety and a ton of survivability for Moze, though at the cost of some top-end damage. I’d personally put it above bloodletter.
(So many titles, so little impact. )
I want to note that the Spring part is just a variant.
Epicenter is really my favorite Moze nade. As mentioned it’s impact, it hits multiple times on a single target instantly thus can give full heals from Vamp in one throw and it does great damage. Definitely a top item.
I used a Mind Sweeper with 1 Redistribution and 4 Fire in the Skag Den.
It worked well with CoV pistols (including Skeksil, which I’m considering for TG), the Bone Shredder (x4 Vladof unique pistol which drops from Chonkstomp),and x2 Ion Cannons (against certain enemies it was like having Fl4k’s Two F4ng).
I tried a Forge/DW set-up which was okay-ish with the Lyuda, but really nothing else.
Forge/SoR (with Deathless and without DW) and SoR/DW (with Deathless) also kinda worked - but I’m not happy with the survival options here (especially since points in Fire in the Skag Den mess with Transformer replenishment).
I’m not against including it in HM, but I want feedback about what I’ve done to see if I missed anything.
(RIP Kevin - 11/21/19 - Gone but not forgotten.)
Might I ask why you consider Skeksil TG but not the Linoge?
I can’t be entirely fair in the comparision because I’m still collecting different Linoges and I haven’t tested them as much as I would like. (I have a few x3, x4, x5 but not enough elemental varieties to try them out).
First, I’m not a fan of the Linoge’s 30-ish mag. It’s much harder to control. Second, the accuracy tends to be worse, and that forces use at a closer range (which can be bad with Mind Sweeper or against certain enemies). But again, I’m still not done with the weapon.
I think the testing you’ve done with it and your points against it are fair. The problem it is running into is that currently Blast Master is Moze’s best com by a wide margin. Blast Master has her best red text effect on a com, boosts 3 of her best skills and it has both offense and defense boosted.
If we take Blast Master out of the picture Mind Sweeper is probably Moze’s next best com, the question though is does that mean that only Blast Master is top gear? Or does Blast Master get a note about being far and away her best com and Mind Sweeper get included because it’s still a level (atleast in my opinion) a level above the other coms.
The last thing to consider is that Mind Sweeper pairs really well with guns that can’t be stopped from reloading and are therefore a no go with Blast Master.
(RIP Kevin - 11/21/19 - Gone but not forgotten.)
As well with non splash weapons that would otherwise only have Short Fuse to rely on for synergy.
I didn’t even know it had a x5 variant.
While it is a bullet hose it can still be effective with her ammo Regen skills paired with a hanging Chad. And underperforming skills like Selfless Vengeance suddenly are at 100% uptime. With out those skills the DPS of the gun alone is better. I do agree with the accuracy issues, though.
I can kill Graveward faster shooting his hand than I can his chest. On M4, his hand takes just a few seconds with Minesweeper.
I think the largest most glaring problem with Mind Sweeper vs Blast Master is one isn’t more difficult to obtain than the other. So assuming someone has access to both Blast Master is better. And to top this off, any Blast Master com is good, while a Mind Sweeper com is MUCH better without TCP, therefore making Mind Sweeper not only worse in most circumstances but harder to get a good roll.
The Stock and accessory (the one in front of the starter) give you extra pellets.
Hunting for a x5, with the right element, and anointment feels like hunting for a 94% Sham in BL2.
That being said though, the gun will brute force alot on M4 in a single mag, but you really need to play to it’s strengths talent/Com wise to overcome the annoyance of mag size, ammo consumption, and accuracy.
The same could be said of the Bloodletter COM, where the ‘god roll’ is more a case of 0 points in TRL than maximising points in either DM or PD, seeing as either damage skill could be better than the other depending on what overall build the player in question is aiming for. But even then, unless a Moze player is going so far out of their way as to avoid using any source of splash damage in their build, it still doesn’t compare to the Blast Master for DPS potential.
My fear for Moze regarding her class mods is that it’s likely that the Blast Master is as good as it’s ever going to get in terms of her entire collection, including whichever ones appear in the future. This of course depends on what Gearbox has in store, both in class mods and extra skill trees if they ever come to fruition. But being able to inflict 100% bonus splash damage is a huge deal and if you check the skill ratings thread, only 4 of Moze’s skills have 5-star ratings and the BM COM boosts 3 of them.
Out of all the class mods for Moze though, the one that frustrates me the most (because I feel it’s such a missed opportunity) is the Raging Bear - I farmed Billy the Anointed for a couple of hours before finally getting a drop, one with +3 StE and +2 SSB. For the only designated drop source in the whole game with a very low drop rate, it didn’t feel worth the time farming for it after I carried out testing and compared both RB and BM for DPS. It almost matched the Blast Master for DPS but only after reaching its damage cap, when the BM can have maximum bonus right from the word go.
The COM makes even less sense when you consider that fuel drain is very likely something that yields diminshing returns the more you boost it which not only dampens the special effect, but also makes bonus points in Deadlines give less than most people would assume. And fuel drain (plus extra starting fuel) is something the Bear Trooper COM already specialises in anyway.
If Raging Bear had the damage cap increased/removed and refunded Iron Bear with more fuel either with each kill or when inflicting damage instead of fuel drain, then Moze would finally have a class mod comparable to Zane’s Seein’ Dead and one that would be worth farming the only drop source at such low rates. It could also pave the way for IB-focused builds to be as equally viable and effective as self-sufficient Moze builds across all content.