[Guide] Top Gear for Nisha

Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Nisha the Lawbringer
#622

I completely disagree with this statement. and I have to say, this would be the first time I don’t agree with what @Chuck80 has to say. my primary weapon for mobbing and raid boss killing is the two-fer luck canon. For Nisha, I think it is one of the best weapons period. That and the Doc’s Flayer. Maybe it’s my playstyle with her, but the luck cannon just performs soooooo well, that I don’t need to change it. I have the pepperbox, it’s a beast. but for ammo consumption, I just don’t ever use it. I go back to the luck canon. [quote=“Chuck80, post:621, topic:2091”]
I’m willing to bet that the Maggie fares about as well the rest of the time.
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you have a point here, but that is depending on the situation imo. I have gone back and forth with the Dastardly Maggie and the two-fer luck canon. the maggie performs very well, but it comes back to ammo consumption for me. and for far away targets, especially when needing a second wind, the luck canon is my savior more times than not. Like the Bad Ass round in the Holodome. I wouldn’t roll with a maggie in there. at least not on Nisha. :smile:

I normally don’t chime in like this. But the two-fer luck canon is probably my fav pistol in TPS. I felt the need to defend it. LOL

and of course, this is no offense to @Chuck80 as I value his opinion. I just differ on this one.

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#623

Maybe I wasn’t clear. Language barrier and all.

I know that the LC is great. It’s probably the best gun for Nisha. I’m not disputing that.

What I’m questioning is “is it really head and shoulders above everything else?”

On EOS, no doubt that it is: this is the perfect scenario for the LC. The target is far and big, so the explosion triggers very often.

But most of the time, the explosion happens… On Maybe 1/5 shots ? I’m pretty sure that the margin between the Maggie and LC is much smaller than we think.

They do about the same damage per shot. The LC sometimes gets an explosion while the Maggie reloads 1/4 as often. So they probably get similar DPS at medium range (with the Maggie consuming more ammo to achieve that )

At medium range or closer, I think the Maggie is slightly better. At long range the LC wins hands down.

There is the ammo thing of course, but we’re talking about Nisha here, ammo is her main problem, and Jakobs pistols are one of her best options for that.

Bottom line: the LC is probably better overall, but not enough to justify the raving description it has.

And if the Maggie doesn’t perform better than the Iron or Pepperbox, I may just make a single entry called “Jakobs pistols” and mention the distinction in the “best parts” line.

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#624

Agreed. But for me, I don’t rely on the “luck shot”. it does enough damage on it’s own that I don’t even care if it procs or not. But that would be strictly mobbing scenarios for me. When it’s raid boss time, I am praying for “lots” of money shots. LOL :smile:

For me, the Maggie is a weaker Flayer with better accuracy. it’s a shotgun in a pistol. amazing power, but I just don’t like carrying more than one weapon type at a time with Nisha. it’s Doc’s Flayer, Two-fer luck canon, with maybe a cryo Torrent and a jocobs purple spin gun(I forget the name at the moment). I like a diverse kit so I can handle “most” scenarios with a single build, gear setup. :smile:

I see your point. it is very valid. I think for me it’s just my play style that dictates my gear setup. If I have a flayer, why roll with a maggie? I save that slot for a Luck cannon.

Truth be told, before the LC was available, it was ALL about the maggie for me. I spent days grinding for a Dastardly Maggie with perfect parts. I loved it. Still do actually. Its a very attactive gun. LOL Now the Maggie is for my other tunes I’m playing with. :smiley:

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#625

The Maggie is much more like the LC than the Flayer.

Pistol ammo, Dual wield, 25% multiplicative crit bonus, one ammo per shot, and the spread of the Maggie is so tight you might consider it the same as a single bullet, unlike the Flayer which has a typical shotgun spread. Yes on paper it does shoot multiple pellets, but in practice it acts like a normal pistol.

It even deals the same damage per shot as the LC.

I understand carrying a Flayer if you already use the LC to diversify your ammo sources, but I don’t see the Maggie as a Flayer substitute. It’s most definitely in the same category as the LC.

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#626

ah, you got me there. LOL I forgot I’m carrying two shotguns in pistol form with the maggie. LOL

you lost me there. I disagree. it’s a tighter spread than the flayer, but acting like a single bullet? You lost me…

#627

Well, not EXACTLY like a single bullet, but take it to the dummy and test it. In practice, you might miss with a few pellets here and there, but you don’t have to play like you’re using a shotgun, it still behaves like a pistol. So like I said: you may CONSIDER it the same as a single bullet.

It’s very tight and you rarely land less than 4 out of 6 pellets (which is still more damage than an Iron does) . It actually servs as a small advantage in a way: you can hit strafing enemies in showdown :slight_smile: it’s nowhere near as wide as the Flayer though.

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#628

agreed. it is a pistol and it does feel like a pistol. so I do agree. coming from a damage standpoint and less accuracy than the LC, I group it with the shotty’s due to pellet count and spread. Especially if it’s a two-fer maggie. that spread is around mid 60’s I think? so parts of the weapon are a factor in this conversation.

going back to the LC and it’s accuracy. with Hot Lead that accuracy helps a lot in proc’ing that skill. needing crits to activate it. I do know that tombstone kind of mitigates that fact. but you would need a kill for that to be possible. Walking into a room that first shot fired from the LC has the ability to kill in one shot with Hot Lead proc’ing on that shot. and that is without the “money shot” proc’ing.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure trick shot picks up that slack for me. :smile:

EDIT: I am at work so I have to pop in hear and be quick, if you know what I mean. LOL so I apologize for all my grammer and spelling and punctuation. I constantly come back and see my mistakes and edit them. LOL :confounded:

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#629

I was thinking about that remark for a bit now. I left out the showdown part because I wanted to point out that I had to rely heavily on the maggie’s spread to compensate for my lack of aiming ability when NOT in showdown. I had a problem(most likely me just being lazy) of being able to hit moving enemies so the maggie was a huge help. When I first tried the LC my poor aiming ability was really apparent. so apparent that I stopped using it. it wasn’t until I saw some good footage of the LC in use and all the damage I saw it do. and the speed in which it could kill. I decided to give it another go. By doing that I actually improved my own gaming skills. I have much better aiming just out of necessity in trying to properly use the LC. in a way, it improved my skills in game. not that I’m great or good. but I did improve. so I am a little bias in those regards. :blush:

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#630

Im all for clumping Maggie and the Purples (its more or less an always green iron, along the lines of consistent dps vs max potential dps), but I feel LC is on its own tier, its 2 ammo/mob in a whole bunch of scenarios , superdupe accurate at range, while also being prime raiding gear cuz of its lucky shot.

Then again 'tis your guide I trust your judgement.

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#631

I never planned on lumping the LC with the others.

It’s too different. The gimmick, mag size… It’s different enough to get it’s own entry for sure.

The one I’m not sure is the Maggie. I think it is superior enough to be separate from the other Jakobs pistols, but I’d rather have confirmation.

#632

Yeah, the slight spread helps. I have been playing this game for a while and have not improved significantly lately, to me the Maggie is still a bit easier to use. The thing about showdown is that strafing enemies will usually avoid shots because the crosshair is always center of mass, but a BIT of spread makes it easier.

Another advantage all other Jakobs have on the LC is the possibility of playing recoil free if you time your thing right. Shooting from ADS corrects recoil and forced you to Fire only the main gun. Once it’s nearly empty, you release ADS and let the fresh off hand gun fire while the main reloads. Since the off hand gun has no recoil, your reticle is still at it’s smallest when you get back to your main. It’s tricky to pull off but worth it between showdowns.

The LC has too small a mag and you will have to stop shooting.

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#633

Throughout my whole BL: TPS playing career I’ve never met a scenario when the Maggie is at least equal to the LC in any sense (maybe it’s my playstyle, I won’t argue that). Speaking of the LC money shot proc chance and based on my experience, I can say that it procs really more often if a bullet shot from the LC covers longer distances when using the Trick Shot skill and jumping a lot (especially in vacuum).

#634

This I was unaware of. Much like Sal Nisha has perks in her off hand as well? This is why you are the ■■■■ @Chuck80. I always learn something new when reading your posts. much obliged good sir! :smile:

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#635

that sounds like you have to be really quick on that. that would require practice for me to get a handle on. Sort of like when I adapted your Deputy Sal Build. I had to get good with my off hand trigger pulling and timing to properly use the ROM.

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#636

If you refer to to Mr. Harris’ long dead thread, he does some crude DPS tests with almost all jakobs weaponry (with his build mind you, so variation) , which included a max efficiency Iron/Pepperbox (Green Glitch IIRC) and a Maggie, and the Iron/Box took down eclipse faster than the maggie. This is ideal scenarios of course with glitches, but he more or less showed that Glitched Pistols have higher potential DPS. The Maggie is more consistent because it doesn’t need glitches, I mean the tradeoff is consistency and ammo efficiency for DPS, and considering they’re both Jakobs and that comparison is common, I feel it’s justified.

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#637

The only other things I had were the launchers and the Bomber Oz kit.

Do you want a Pepperbox vs Maggie vs LC?

But a little pre-testing hypothesis, the reason the LC will probably remain king is b/c of its base damage. In my experience Hot Lead ignores any damage multipliers on the weapon card, so you want that damage to be one big pellet instead of SG style like the Maggie/Pepperbox. So the spark and chains hit harder.

The LC also has a constant 30% damage from M6.

Ect… ect…

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#638

That’s what I’m talking about! Thanks for making it more technical for the “heavy hitters” in here like yourself, @Chuck80, @Hoyle4, @Sljm, @Derch, etc… I don’t have the wherewithal to communicate my opinion in here effectively like you heavy hitters do. :wink:

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#639

Pepperbox or Iron (I don’t care really) Vs Maggie Vs LC
Just want to gauge their RELATIVE power.

…on ANYTHING BUT ECLIPSE/EOS!!!
I’ve seen that fight ad nauseam and it’s CLEARLY a best case scenario for the LC.
I’d like to see a bit of mobbing and a boss fight, so maybe robot plant and felicity for a change ? That would be awesome :smile:

Again, I don’t expect anything to beat the LC. Not at all the point of my inquiry.

Let’s say that other Jakobs pistols are a 5 and the LC is a 10. As it stands, the Maggie is thought of to be about a 6 (slightly better than purple but miles behind the LC)
While i’m inclined to think that it’s at least an 8, maybe a 9.

For raw damage, the LC is sure the best, but many little things go the Maggie’s way: bigger mag, much less recoil, the possibility of never stopping to reload and always shoot without recoil, the slight spread that makes aiming easier… those little details.

I intend to either:

A: rewrite the Maggie’s description to make it clear that it’s not a “poor man’s LC” but a genuinly good gun on it’s own for different reasons.

or B: (if tests turn out negative and the Maggie truly is just slightly better than Irons) fold it into the same entry as the Iron and Pepperbox, which I will call “Jakobs pistols”

#640

It’s not that hard actually, it just requires some getting used to :smile:
Usually, the next shot on semi-auto pistols is picked randomly from either guns. We’re simply using ADS to skew the odds in our favor.
Just shoot from ADS when your main gun is loaded then revert to hip shooting. then keep shooting with the off hand while the main hand reloads.

Or simply put: if both guns have about the same shots left, ADS to tip the scale one way so that you are sure that they will not have to reload at the same time.

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#641

I’ll do the Felicity run.

And if its alright with you I’m not going to spec into Ruthless and thus I’m not going to stagger my secondary pistol’s shots.

I like to run M6 and Saddle Up better. And I fined a bigger burst DPS to be better overall with her, over a consistent DPS. But really I just personally don’t like the stagger technique in general. Plus Hell’s and OFEOY’s random element usually make it happen anyway (or mess it up, either or).

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