Gunner Community Issue Compendium

The only bonus stats on relics and COMs that affect iron bear are splash/AOE. So I dont really understand the complaint.

I was going to type out an edit but it’s easier to just read the post you linked to realistically.

(5/5 SSB + 5/5 RPM + 1/1 Specialist Bear) * 0.15 for FitSD. Take 60% of that number and add it on top of there again and you get the bonus from 6/3 StE, and you get more advantage outside of Iron Bear as Moze.

Meanwhile, 10/5 SSB is just that, 40 percent base damage increase.

It completely depends on your gear, and your playstyle, but 10/5 SSB is not going to beat out Blast Master. +6 StE RB likely won’t either, but with the right set up at least you can make a case for it.

My 2¢

I’d like to see better elemental damage focus outside of incendiary. I like where incendiary is, but I feel like you have to stack a mod, grenade, or artifact with the weapon in order to get decent damage with corrosive. Radiation and cryo are severely underpowered with Moze. Anoitments are not sustaining the elements outside of incendiary.

I’m not too in depth with fixes, but it’s my observation.

Salamander and punchy punch bear are the bookends of Moze skills. You see them and they look cool, there isn’t much use for them, except to look at.

I still like Moze though. Favorite character by far.

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I wasn’t referring to mods and artifacts to increase blast master, I can see how that was confusing.

What I meant is base damage without skills included don’t give the full picture. Blast Master is severely hampered if you aren’t using skills that will benefit from splash damage. It doubles all splash damage, and that will make skills like StE double as well.

But they used skills though. There is a link to the tree in the link.

Moze may not have any skills directly linked to buffing cryo or radiation, but they deal 50% bonus damage to armour and shields respectively, and both inflict the standard 100% damage on flesh. If you then add Moze’s skills where she inflicts bonus fire damage (which in the appropriate build is basically every time you deal splash damage and/or land critical hits) then it means she doesn’t have to swap weapons as much as other vault hunters would. With powerful enough Maliwan weapons, the only time lost when not firing would be simply switching between cryo and radiation when necessary.

This is one of the premises of my build where I can use a Trevonator and Kyb’s Worth, both of them cryo + radiation (and the Kyb’s btw is not anointed) and comfortably go about my business because the skills providing bonus fire damage help to somewhat mitigate the missing bonuses from not rolling the heavier elements. But I have Iron Bear’s AI rolling shock + corrosive railguns as well to make life a hell of a lot easier.

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Hey you’re right. Didn’t click through links.

Another issue while reading this closer, I haven’t finished yet, is there a total uptime dps? Does RB fall into the same trap as Bear Trooper? Bear Trooper has roughly the same total dps as Blast master, but it takes twice as long so there’s no real point. Assuming Raging Bear doesn’t get as long of a duration, it gets a damage boost but potential dps cannot be based on full damage only as you will have to expend fuel and time to get there. You would need to average out max dps with beginning dps to get a more accurate depiction of a Raging Bear damage.

Cool build. It looks fun but it takes too long to kill stuff imo. I don’t use cryo or radiation because I’m impatient. I do swap weapons🙄 but it’s not that bad. I run recursions to clear levels, then fearmongers/ cutsman for splash damage on bosses. I’ve tried a bunch of different builds to try and make cryo and radiation perform at least close to incendiary and corrosive, but this goes with my previous post, it just doesn’t perform as well.

Yeah that one is more of a single shot or burst damage test. I view it similarly to that Axton Assault rifle Class mod comparison.

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Last Stand Loaded Dice causing issues with Moze’s skills, especially Means of Destruction.

Edit: there is a possibility that this issue may be related to other forms of “Loaded Dice”, and not exclusively a Last Stand variant. Means of Destruction and ammo regen not working?

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Forgot mention one thing about AB that was touched on in another thread. AB needs to have some weight, because small creatures like ratches and varkids can knock it back.

I have a thread a while back. It’s mostly suggestions to offer Moze some more survivability without going balls deep(20+ pts) in Demo. “Unbearable Rage” is a bit if an imaginative send off but I left it because Moze needs some wow factor imo. Here’s the long and the short:

*Shield of Retribution:

-Security Bear(1/1) In addition to the shield, Iron Bear now gains an aura that grants nearby players +0.5% Health Regen per second and +15% Shield Recharge Delay. *This skill functions with Auto Bear.

-Force Feedback(1/1) When Moze scores a Critical Kill she now gains +33% Shield Recharge and +21% Shield Recharge Delay for 5 seconds. Additionally, when Moze scores a Critical Kill, 25% of her bonus Fire Damage becomes additional Shock Damage for 5 seconds.

*Bottomless Mags:

-Redistribution(1/1) On critical hit Moze additionaly now has a chance to regen 3.0% of her Maximum Health over 3 seconds. *Does not function while in Iron Bear. *Does not stack.

-Rushin’ Offensive(1/1) Zane now also gains the ability to shoot while sprinting. Derp!

-Click, Click…(3/3) Moze now gains gun damage per point, equal to twice the number of rounds her current weapon fires per second(or twice the size of her magazine? Or something?)

-Forged(1/1) Forge now additionally provides 5% Missing Health per second.

*Demolition Woman:

-Stainless Steel Bear(5/5/) Now additionaly grants Moze 1% Damage Reduction per point. Max 5% Damage Reduction at 5/5(could alternatively be moved to Matching Set)

-Auto Bear (1/1) Auto Bear can now optionally be deployed at targeted location by briefly holding AS button down.

-Unbearable Rage(1/1) Tier 5 New Skill) Requires Autobear as prerequisite: Iron Bear can now be deployed via airdrop at targeted location within medium range by briefly holding the AS button down. Iron Bear plummets to the ground like a missile in a spectacular Nuclear Storm that does crappy Rad, minor Fire and some tickling Shock damage but looks pretty cool. After the Autobear timer is up, Iron Bear goes on a +60 second cooldown

I really like this point, it would open up an entirely new play style with Moze and they could tie it just to the auto bear perk

Proposition: Change Tenacious Defense to: “You cannot take health damage while your shield is active.” Have this effect also make it so the same damage which breaks your shield doesn’t hit your health. That way Stop Gaps and Rechargers can work with Deathless builds.

Proposition: Make the splash 100% but with a much lower damage bonus.

Proposition: Swap the skills of Mind Sweeper and Blaster Master COMs. Please, seriously, the Mind Sweeper would be WAY better with PtHP and Vamp. And Blaster Master would love bonus points in FitSD.

Also, another problem: All of Moze’s ammo regen skills are reduced when using Launchers. This should either be removed, or stated explicitly in the skills.
Also also, for Means of Destruction: Returns should be guaranteed, with a cooldown based upon the number of points spent on the skill.

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Nitpicky of me but Blast Master and Fitsd do nothing for each other. Fitsd damage has never been boosted by splash. It’s based only on ‘Gun Damage Boosts’ and fire elemental multipliers.

I didn’t know that!
Thanks!

I’m not sure if it’s a new change or if my previous testing was faulty, but I discovered yesterday that none of Moze’s fire skills receive damage boosts from splash, even if the triggering bullet is buffed by splash.

I was under the impression that Fire In the Skag Den dealt a percentage of any splash damage dealt as bonus incendiary damage.
Is that not how it’s programed?
Does Stoke the Embers not stack with that?
Does dealing more splash damage with a Blast Master COM not increase the incendiary damage?

That all seems really weird and counter-intuitive

FitSD Damage = [ Normal Hit x FitSD % ] x Fire Damage Multiplier x C-C-Combo

Normal hit is the guns card damage times by what people commonly refer to as additive damage, so this is all the SOR gun damage skills, click click and a few gear bonuses.

FitSD % is just the skills percentage bonus damage.

Fire Damage Multiplier is whatever the fires normal buff is verse the hp type, this is then multiplied by [ 1 + Incendiary bonuses ]. Incendiary bonuses include Stoke the embers, elemental projectors and the like.

Stoke the embers at 3/3 will make FitSD deal 30% more damage.

Nope, splash damage multipliers don’t do anything for FitSD.


The following is all 5/5 FitSD with an ogre that deals 654 damage. My guardian rank gun damage is 14.66% and C-C-Combo is active on 1 stack for 2%. I’m going to put normal hit in [ and ] to make it easier to track, as GR isn’t part of normal hit. For some reason C-C-Combo seems to factor in, I’m still lost on this but including C-C-Combo is consistent with all my calculations.

Gun Damage = [ 654 ] x 1.1466 x 1.02 = 764.87
FitSD Damage = 654 x 0.15 x 1.75 x 1.02 = 175.1085

I now add 5/5 Armored Infantry and a dud shield so I now have 15% gun damage active.

Gun Damage = [ 654 x 1.15 ] x 1.1466 x 1.02 = 879.61
FitSD Damage = 654 x 0.15 x 1.75 x 1.02 = 201.37

image

I then add a Blast Master that has 31% Assault Rifle Damage, and wait the for the bonus splash to max out.

Gun Damage = [ 654 x 1.15 ] x 1.31 x 2 x 1.1466 x 1.02 = 2304.57
FitSD Damage = 654 x 0.15 x 1.75 x 1.02 = 201.37

image

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Wow, that is incredibly disappointing.
FitSD says it does incendiary based off of Splash.
Splash goes up, but incendiary doesn’t?
Seems like a bug?

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