Guns the Bee makes perfect sense for

Awesome .
Anyone know why the Black Queen ant is not spawning at bug gulch? 15 times I quit/saved & still no queen… Hmm

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I’m not sure if her appearance is based on the same 10% RNG as gear drops, but I see her often enough still.

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happens to me a lot. I though maybe I needed to start a mission to unlock her or something. Then, Bam! she spawns. lol So, it’s RNG at it’s best. lol

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Yeah… Ya know I just started playing BL2 again after about a year or so break. I gave a lot of legendary /Perls away to online friends. Should have dup’d but oh well it gives me something to do.
Other night I killed sorcerer Jack like 15 or so times in a row save/quit farming over & over, nothing. I reboot the 360 & then first try back BAM two legendary drops. Come back, bam one more… Weird.
Thanks for the reply guys/gals…later
Blitzer850 <-in game

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From what I can remember from the old forums, the theory is that if you drove to Gettle/Mobley by parking your car near the church, you would not trigger whatever event was necessary to spawn the Black Queen. If you run through to them by going behind Ellie’s, then you will hit they trigger and give her a chance to spawn.


I think I read that also & the Black Queen would spawn usually around that
y in the road at bug gulch b4 those houses… anyway I’m trying it again…
I did spawn 2 tubbies & received L class mods for Axton & one killer class
for assassin. My bud will like that he plays zero smile… Thanks for the
reply! Later…

If you get far enough into Digistruct Peak the Black Queens have an 100% spawn rate :grin:


You can drive to the church as a short-cut, but after killing the fellas up top, skirt away from the canyon and drop down before that last save point that spawns the crew at the end of the map and the Black Queen.

You just don’t wanna walk right over to the ledge as that greatly diminishes the Black Queen’s spawning. YMMV but this plan has worked for me.

Beware of spiderants ready to jump down your throat though once you hop down there as you can likely be getting grief from all directions…

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I can confirm this works

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First, I get that I’m a bit late :roll_eyes: into this post. Second, too bad it got off topic because it’s an interesting subject. Third, I’m hoping it gets revived because, it contains information useful to those of us who are less experience players? :thinking: Lastly, As an inexperienced player I cannot offer an opinon but hey, I can share findings. :smiley:
So, now that the disclaimers are out of the way, here is what I’ve got to add.

I need an alternative to the SandHawk so I’ve been testing a variety of guns in the shooting range to see how much a Bee really boosts their damage. While I was there, it made sense to also try out other guns. Tested with Axton, Doubleup/Gemini build , Leg Soldier Com, Bone ot Ancients relic.
First I noted the Critical hit dmg and Basic hit dmg of each gun with an Adaptive shield equipped. Then I switched to the Bee and recorded those results. To keep it short, the results are the damage increase multipliers I saw that were better than x3. BEE dmg/Adaptive dmg.
----------------------------------- Crit ------ Basic
Stopping Sandhawk — x 8.1 ---- x 14.3
Elegant Rubi --------------- x 9.4 ---- x 11.6
Hellfire ------------------------ x 6.5 ---- x 6.5
Slagga ------------------------ x 3.6 ---- x 5.4
Thndrbl Fists -------------- x 3.4 ---- x 3.4
Greed -------------------------- x 3.2 ---- x 3.2

PS: Tested the Hellfire and the Rubi in the field. Both performed great with the Bee, which puts them on my list of Bee guns that make perfect sense.


So the multiplier for crit is less than basic shot? (Bee vs Adaptive)
I expected the opposite. ok.
“Officially” , beside the obvious unlisted pellets, high fire rate and especially crit bonus should be “Bee friendly”.
So Lady Fist and Moxxie’s guns. (Most Moxxie’s have low base dmg thou.) Of course Lyudas too.

I remember this thread but vaguely. There must be more data laying around.


Yeah, that surprised me too. Also interesting was that the secondary damage of the Thunderball Fists was the same with either shield or with either a crit or basic shot. It never changed. As for Moxxi guns, after getting great results with the Rubi, I did a Bad Touch and a Creamer. Neither had much of a boost.

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Not surprised about the Launcher. They never get buffed outside Steady! :wink: Same for the Thunderball Fist secondary. It’s technically a rocket. Same goes for the Kerblaster’s “grenade” and a few other I guess.
I know one gun I expected to benefit from unlisted pellets was the Pimpernel but idk if it’s because of the slow fire rate. Nope. Not good.
Or I’m just to clumsy at hitting sweet spot.

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@piratebones2 Did you had skills/BAR on? These can mess data.

Did some quick “shot”

Emperor (no crit bonus)-- on body shot x5.6 – crit x5.6
Bitch (crit bonus (x?)) ----- on body shot x8.9 – crit x8.91

These were naked. No other shield than Bee/No Bee. No BAR, No skills. No COM.
And with a fire Lyuda (on flesh), same Bee.
(crit bonus x1.45) (crit acc.=> Razrez)
Body shot 3.32 crit 3.31


Yeah, I had the skills/BAR on. Since the damage boosts are for my build, BAR, COM, Relic, etc. I’m sure the results would be different for anyone else.
I have an Emperor and a Bitch so it will be interesting to see how my build impacts my results versus your naked build.
I thought that I read the Pimpernel get a good boost? I don’t have a Pimpernel to test but plan to do my Lyudmilas.
I did a Stinkpot. It had almost no change in dmg. Probably like you suggested, the rocket and grenade guns don’t get a boost.

Also did a Fire Plasma Caster, Hyperion I think, it did ok, x 4.7 on both Crit and Basic.

I started a few other guns that I want to finish when I get back in the game later tonight. I’ll see what the Emperor and Bitch look like then. I’m liking the Bitch’s numbers you got. To date, I haven’t liked using them, but that boost is a nice improvement.


Was in bed when it striked me. The Bee bonus is an added damage. Not a multiplier. So you (we) have to look at absolute values. Not a “ratio” or multiplier.

If I look at the numbers I have written down. Both the Emperor and the Bitch give me a damage bonus of roughly 662K on body shots. My OP1 Bee Amp bonus. (662 189)
But on crit the Emperor give me a bonus of 1 333K. 2x the base Amp damage while the Bitch hit for an added
2 317K or 3.5 the Amp dmg.
So the known “crit bonus is boosted by the Bee” still hold. It’s a “multiplier added bonus”.
Where it get interessting is with the fire vs flesh Lyuda.
On body shot the bonus is 1 159K or x1.75 the Amp dmg and the bonus on crit is 5 671 000. x8.56 the base Amp dmg!

Sorry for the mess post. Going back to bed now! :wink:
All that (the damage formula) is somewhere. I can trace it back. Probably.
But yeah.

  1. Unlisted pellets
  2. Crit bonus
  3. maatching elements
  4. fire rate
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For testing I like guns that give absolute results - those that shoot a single pellet. You really have to know how to shoot a Pimp to ensure reliable consistent numbers ; but yes, a Pimp rivals a Sandhawk for DPS with a Bee.

Guns with a high crit multiplier are ideal to test ; those with splash are great too ( Snider, Plasma Caster, Torgue AR or pistol, etc. ).

It really is best to test with no skills / no COM / no relic / no BAR. I’ve done haphazard testing with those and have always regretted it.

I also recommend four numbers :

  • body shot with Bee
  • body shot without Bee
  • crit shot with Bee
  • crit shot without Bee

And if you’re feeling frisky, do them all over again with an elemental relic.

Also tables are great :

Gun Body Crit Body/Bee Crit/Bee

The sub pellets should be getting undivided amp damage. It’s tricky to tell because you need to be able to track how many of the five make contact, and/or if the game combines the damage from say three into one damage value where two others whiff.

Jefe’s structure and variable-control advice is pretty sound, and should get you some clean data.


I never really tested the Pimp. heck! I never properly “tested” tthe Bee before last night. It was from my “field experience”.
So yeah. It probably was just not reliably hitting the sweet spot. (On Pete mostly) There probably was subjective feeling too

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The current theories are (with a patched game):

  • If a weapon shoots multiple pellets which are listed on the item card, the amp damage is equally divided among them.

  • If these pellets are not listed, each one gets full amp damage.

  • Amp damage applies to splash damage as well.

  • Amp damage is not applied to crit damage: only the base damage (though the crit damage will then be calculated using this amplified base damage, and will increase accordingly, but you get the gist).

In principle, I would start by dialing in sound experiments (lock down all variables you can as mentioned above, and I’d skip anything red-texted and do this outside of UVHM to eliminate damage reduction to simplify the math) until these are confirmed to be true or not. Once I saw this behavior, I’d start adding variables one at a time (does BAR matter, how do individual skills affect this, COMs, relics, red-texted stuff, whatever I’m actually after testing).

If those don’t hold true with all the variables locked down, either the experiment wasn’t controlled properly or those theories are invalid somehow.