Guns the Bee makes perfect sense for


(Is this thing on?) #41

IIRC that is how it was explained in the patch notes; IOW it’s not just theory!


(Carlton Slayer) #42

I did not know this- I have some Slow Hands I should try it with…


(Not a real Dr. but I got style...) #43

And that is why crit bonus is with good the Bee.
If the Amp damage was applied after the crit multiplier it wouldn’t be that good. Being applied to the base damage wich is then multiplied by the crit bonus is what make it great.
That’s why the Lady fist. (Combine with Hyperion reverse recoil) works great with the Bee.

Also.

:astonished: Sure. Gotta try that!


(Santa Söze) #44

Fibber + Bee is nuts.
Anarchy Gaige + Fibber + Bee is insanity.
Maya + Chain Reaction + Fibber + Bee vs The Bunker if done right should crash the game :stuck_out_tongue:


(Not a real Dr. but I got style...) #45

That immediately came to mind.

My mind need some anchor not to go insane!


(Santa Söze) #46

I don’t want to derail too much from the Bee part of the thread, but because the Fibber bounces and then splits Close Enough doesn’t apply to the ricocheted pellets - so she gets the full Anarchy boost without CE’s 50% penalty.

I got Gaige up to OP8 faster than any other character because I used a pair of Fibbers (slag and corrosive) and just kept upgrading her Bee.

Actually this made me wonder if CE affects Bee damage :thinking:

More :

EDIT : just tested - yes, Close Enough does affect Bee damage.
I used a NVHM Vladof pistol with 26 damage and an OP8 Bee with 1678K damage - a direct hit with no Anarchy and IO spent was 1678K ; a ricocheted hit did 839K (50%).


(Guajiro Pandoreño) #47

I prefer the shotgun-barrel Fibber for this sort of thing, just because the shots move slowly, making it easier to “see” Chain Reaction in action. They get undivided amp damage just the same (though this is a regular amp shield). I’ll go Bee it up today and see how that goes.

Brought my level 68 bee to a level 77 fight… even this nerfed Bee was making good dents when shared across all those Fibber rounds. The shots seem to bounce off various bits of BNK3R like it’s more of a collection of targets than a single target. Here he’s drifting laterally away from the cluster of shot, so you can see the rounds going wide.

Here the shots are working him over up one side and down the other. I think an on-level Bee might knock him out with just a few shots like this?


(Santa Söze) #48

I just love that 20 second-long drone followed by a frozen screen and complete crash. I’ve only crashed the game a few times with Maya and a few times with Zer0, but Maya gets the longest drones.


#49

You are correct Doc. A multiplier is useless and deceiving. My mistake. At the risk of further embarrassment to myself, below is what I found when not shooting from the hip so to speak.

I stripped down 3 characters, a Lvl 40 Gaige, a Lvl 57 Krieg and a Lvl 70 Axton. No Skill points, BAR, Com, relic or anything else equipped.

I had 7 Lyuda I could use with Axton, 4 with Krieg and 2 with Gaige plus a number of Bees to choose from.

For the main tests, I used a lvl 35 Bee and 4 Lyudas so that all three classes could equip them. The exception being Gaige who could only equip the 2 lower level Lyuda.

I recorded results in UVHM, TVHM and NM.
So, keeping my fingers crossed that I don’t step in it again, this is what the result showed, which isn’t much.

Regardless of class or level of the character or game mode, the results for a particular Bee/Lyuda combo were exactly the same, with one exception. There was a Britva in the group of 4 Lyudas. The results for it were different in NM. The NM damage number both with the Bee and without a shield were precisely 50% higher than UVHM and TVHM numbers, indicating that in NM the 50% Melee got added to the shot damage in both instances, but not in TVHM and UVHM.
The 35 Bee boosted both the critical hit and base hit damages from 30% to 495% above the no shield value. The boost is inverse to the level of the weapon. A lvl 50 Lyuda got boosted 30% and a lvl 27 got boosted 495% by the lvl 35 Bee.
The same inverse results also exist as the level of the Bee increases. The same lvl 50 and 27 Lyudas as above will have their critical hit damage boosted from 131K to 2388K and from 33K to 2106K respectively. Thats roughly 23 times and 375 times the no shield critical hit values.

Take a look at your Lyuda parts but it may still not explain the boost. I saw little difference dependent on element or non-element. But, parts as always are important and a couple things did show up there in the tests.

I have a 65 Razrez fire with all Vladof parts that in testing with a Lvl 70 Bee blew away the other 65 and the 66 (non Vladof part) I have. By 212% and 167% respectively, (with the stripped down Axton).

In another scenario, which i don’t understand, the 59 NE Dobby beat the 65 Corr. Dobby by 52% with the Lvl 70 Bee shield. It lost to the 65 Corr. Dobby by 5% with no shield. Both have Jacobs grips, both have the 20% Crit accessory, the 59 has a Hyperion stock and the 65 has a Vladof stock. I re-tested several times looking for a reason.

As for Multiple Pellet guns,
I tried testing a few (Sandhawk, Harold) and didn’t get very far. There are some consistent numbers but then new numbers will show up, so trying get something repeatable did not go well. As @Adabiviak pointed out, it’s tricky to track all the pellets and tell if some were combined or whiffs. At times it clearly looked like some were showing combined damage and the whiffs are frequent.

Maybe strapping on a Bee, grabbing the gun to try out and heading to the shooting range is enough to tell if the gun makes sense with a Bee. That led me to the Rubi and Hellfire combo with a Bee when I was looking for a viable alternative to Beehawking. Or, just take them out and shoot stuff to see how it works. Way more fun than numbers.


(Not a real Dr. but I got style...) #50

My guess is the flesh vs corosive resistance.


(Guajiro Pandoreño) #51

The Logan’s Gun is one of my favorites with the Bee. It can’t crit (all splash), but all explosions get full amp damage. How many explosions? I’m using a Redundant one, so double shots. I hear four amp hits, but see six damage numbers… would need a non-Redundant one to control that variable to figure out exactly what’s going on, but its capability for killing is easily good enough for me.

Interestingly, a regular amp shield won’t do it. Not that hardly anyone else is using a Logan’s Gun for combat much less with a non-Bee amp shield, but if you’re using the Logan’s Gun properly for combat with a full Bee on, it’ll lay some hate.


#52

Finally worked out a format for the Lyudmila data that looked readable.

THE BEE - Damage Increases to Lyudmila Rifles in UVHM and TVHM
Damage in 000 (K) No Shield Bee Damage No Shield Bee Damage Grip, Stock, Acc.
Lvl 70 The Bee Base Dmg Base Dmg Increase Crit Dmg Crit Dmg Increase Parts
66 Razrez, Shock 133 599 350% 652 2939 351% J,J,Crit
65 Dobby, Corr. 71 350 395% 318 1578 396% J,V,Recoil
65 Razrez, Incend. 188 1005 435% 923 4926 434% V,V,Crit
59 Dobby, NE 68 534 686% 305 2406 689% J,H,Recoil
50 Razrez, Non Elem. 21 487 2257% 101 2388 2264% D,D,Crit
50 Gromky, Shock 19 486 2407% 87 2187 2408% M,J,NA
29 Britva, Corr. 0.8 280 35751% 3.5 1263 35832% H,D,Melee
27 Dobby, Non Elem. 1.2 468 37551% 5.6 2106 37554% D,M,Recoil
Lvl 35 The Bee
66 Razrez, Shock 133 139 5% 652 682 5% J,J,Crit
65 Dobby, Corr. 71 74 5% 318 334 5% J,V,Recoil
65 Razrez, Incend. 188 199 6% 923 976 6% V,V,Crit
59 Dobby, NE 68 76 12% 305 333 9% J,H,Recoil
50 Razrez, Non Elem. 21 27 30% 101 131 30% D,D,Crit
50 Gromky, Shock 19 26 32% 87 114 31% M,J,NA
29 Britva, Corr. 0.8 4.5 472% 3.5 20 472% H,D,Melee
27 Dobby, Non Elem. 1.2 7.4 495% 5.6 33 495% D,M,Recoil

I have a Logan’s or two somewhere. Liked it from what I recall. Think I’ll go find it and see how much I can buff it with the 70 Bee (in the field :smiley:)


(Rumplebunny) #53

I’ve done LBT Gaige (with enough in the Ordered Chaos tree to get Nth degree maxed), shock Bone, Bee, shock Redundant Fibber (ricochet) and I’ve never cleared mobs faster. Fire a few rounds into a crowd, instant death for everyone. I mean, to the point where it just wasn’t fun. :smiley:


(Carlton Slayer) #54

If you REALLY want to be unfair try it with her Slayer of Terra com- because 600 stacks of Anarchy is SO much fun :grin:


#55

Didn’t have a Logans Gun on the XB1 so decided to go farm up some Fibbers and see how they did against Hyperius. Respecd Axton to get any damage boost I could, strapped on the Bee and a couple of Redundant type 2 Fibbers with a pistol damage ancient relic. Each time I sent the minions into repair so his shield was down I went after him by shooting at the ground in front of him but could not do much damage. Kept thinking I was doing something wrong. Is the Fibber with Axton perhaps not boosted enough for a boss like Hyperius?


(Is this thing on?) #56

What element where the Fibbers?


#57

I tried both Fire and Shock