Help regarding 2 points re bear and moze gun confusion

Ive written down all the Moze damage formulas and after much testing ingame, im stuck on 2 points.

First - since the Salamander boost, i can use flamers in bear and its fantastic. What i cannot figure out, is if a 20% fire boost from an Old God shield is actually doing anything for bear damage. It appears i do more damage while wearing a supersoldier shield. This makes NO sense to me. The Old God is a lvl 65 shield, the Supersoldier a 72. They both have “kills reduce iron bear cooldown”.
Does elemental damage boosts work on IB, because it says they do, but im reading alot of posts lately saying it doesnt affect bear hardpoint damage. Is the flamethrower an elemental attack, or classed as a hardpoint? Is the tick damage from the flamer an elemental attack?

Second - after spending 7 hours re-farming a lvl 72 shredifier from its ONLY guaranteed drop source, im stuck with a mindsweeper mod. TECHNICALLY i should get more damage from a mindsweeper with splash dmg boost, but i appear to be getting more damage from a +wep dmg +crit dmg com. It has the same skill point setup on it, just does crit and gun dmg instead of splash.

I presume crit dmg = greater dmg spawned micronade, but shouldnt the splash boosts be doing more? The math says spread out your damage sources so you get higher boosts, and this certainly seems so - but is confusing.

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Welcome to the confusing world of Moze math. Where things don’t make sense and loophole are aplenty, well except when they’re not.

No. The only elemental boost that Bear/Cub gets is Stoke the Embers. Nothing from Guardian Ranks or Gear applies. In fact even Superior Firepower which is also an elemental damage mult for cryo does not apply to bear. So view Stoke applying as an exception to the rule.

So there’s 2 cases here and the cases are if your gun does splash damage or not. I don’t know Level 72 values for stats so excuse as I just use random values for demonstration purposes you can plug in exact values if you need.
I’ll assume
Your weapon does 100 damage on a body shot, Weapon damage = 30%, Crit = 30% and splash = 40%.

With 0 boosts you’d have:
Bullet damage on Crit = 100 x 2 = 200
Mind Sweeper nade = 200
Total = 400

Case 1 we’ll use your Shredifier which is a non splash gun. Hence the base bullet won’t receive splash boosts but the micro nade will.

Using weapon damage and crit
Bullet damage on Crit = 100 x 1.3 x 2 x 1.3 = 338
Mind Sweeper nade = 338
Total = 676

Using just splash damage
Bullet damage on Crit = 100 x 2 = 200
Mind Sweeper nade = 200 x 1.4 = 280
Total = 480

As you can see for this fairly basic example on a non splash weapon and without considering boosts such as consec hits or a splash anoint you comfortably get more damage from investing in 2 boosts that apply to your weapon than on 1 boost only applying to your micro nade.

Case 2 we’ll use a generic splash gun. Hence the base bullet will receive splash boosts.

Using weapon damage and crit
Bullet damage on Crit = 100 x 1.3 x 2 x 1.3 = 338
Mind Sweeper nade = 338
Total = 676

Using just splash damage
Bullet damage on Crit = 100 x 1.4 x 2 = 280
Mind Sweeper nade = 280 x 1.4 = 392
Total = 672

Here the numbers are far closer. However the two boosts still win. Splash is amazing, and the fact there’s a case where 1 passive nearly equals 2 passives for damage is phenomenal. For pure micro nade damage it did win. However there’s a more complete picture that needs to be considered and that picture also includes the fact that you don’t get a micro nade every shot, so splash being competitive is fully rng dependent on you getting good rng every single shot. Fail to proc a micro nade that does damage or just hit a body shot and the investment in your base damage is just miles better. On a non splash gun like you’re using its always just better.

Now ideally you’d not settle for either of these options and you’d get weapon damage and splash damage on 1 com. God roll being weapon type, splash, weapon damage. However with BL3 drop rates thats not realistic.

Edit side note here: But the example of splash damage boosts on a non splash gun could be translated to why grenade damage on Mind Sweeper isn’t a great roll. Sure it affects the micro nades, but it’ll never affect your base damage and base damage means more.

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Ok - that all makes sense actually. Seeing it laid out like that helps.
Trying to farm mindsweeper is proving hard - its not dropping consistantly from the Burgerking miniboss guy.

I realised the accuracy thing was an issue also, after comparing a bipod shredifier with a 75% acc. ogre - the shredifier out-did the ogre hands down. I presumed the ogre would receive splash bonus but its inaccuracy means less crits overall, evern with a company man relic boosting acc.
Dissapointingly i hoped i could sustain the monarch with stacked acc bonus’s to run the mindsweeper, but the mag runs dry fast and even with all that spread, the crits arent consistant enough for me.

its not dropping consistantly from the Burgerking

I re-looked up the drop source again and again to check that it was still up to date because I killed him at least 20-30 times before a single mindsweeper ever showed up. Got a couple great ones after farming him for over a week straight…then they upped the level cap hah. Although I did find one of my best ones in a trials box, so those can definitely be a nice change of pace if you ever get tired of burger man.

I never personally had much luck with non-splash guns with MS, although I’ve seen other people do it a lot, sometimes well, sometimes not so well. I used to play with the ogre, then I discovered the soulrender…it splashes, AND aims for you lol. I’ve played around a bunch with different guns and mindsweeper, it’s one of the only mods I consistently come back to with Moze and definitely my favourite. Keep sweeping the good sweep

Agreed, the soulrenderer is great with minesweeper, so is the OPQ. Shredifier yields nothing but disappointment for me.