Hey can we get some Zane buffs

Hey there Gearbox forums, just wanted to make another redundant post about Zane buffs. Of course another post soon will be coming that further goes in depth about specific suggestions, but just wanted to get the frequency of this type of post higher.

-Changing bad skills/augments into good/useable ones
-Letting us actually use our barrier augments
-If you don’t want sntnl to do big damage, at least add real utility to it - changing augments, currently the only actual utility it has imo is that it can’t die like clone, for ccc builds - and the sntnl cryo anointment.
-Changing Class mods
-Adding damage buffs to useless tier 5 skills, looking at violent violence, nerves of steel, and like a ghost
-Letting us further stack kill skills, this is like extremely conditional upon getting a kill, they could be stacked much further
-Giving all kill skills passive bonuses - like cool hand - this way we’re not useless in FFYL

IMO many if not all things listed need addressed and honestly if all of these things were changed, updated, buffed, whatever - Zane would not become overpowered. He would become more balanced.
I know I seem like the last person to talk about Zane “being weak” because of my Youtube channel, and all the crazy things I showcase him doing. But that stuff isn’t without access to any gear I want via my own discord trading rooms, and extreme knowledge of the game mechanics from doing this every single day since release.
Real Zane players are struggling and suffering because they make a small mistake in pairing things, or they don’t have top tier gear. I can tell people to play on lower Mayhem modes forever, but the fact is they want to keep up with their friends.
I will say the Scaling to Violent Momentum was about exactly what we wanted, but the damage is once again conditional on if you want to take on that playstyle, and even if you fully commit to max speed = max damage, you still are not doing the same damage another vault hunter can do without having to aim while sliding.

I’ll be going into further detail on what exactly I think could be changed and updated based on reading other people’s suggestions and playing this game every single day since release. But like I said I’ll be saving that for another topic, so that this can be more frequently brought up. I’ll probably make a video on it too, and try to tell people to post about it more until it is addressed.

I hope if a Gbox employee reads this, they realize this post was made out of respect and love for this game :)!
Thanks :slight_smile:


I am a Zane user since Day one, with 300h of this character. Could not agree more on what thicc said, sometimes Zane feels strong, but other times (many times since m4) , he’s a pile of frustration. I don’t care for making him op, but i would like some skills changed.

Stacking kill skills even more sounds great, maybe with diminishing returns, after x stacks,or something, if GB thinks is too much.

I don’t have a real intent to use nerves of Steel or like a ghost. They should bring something else to the table. I use violent violence in some build.

Sorry i can’t be more specific, i’m at work, on a Phone.


Don’t give them diminshing return ideas lol, because it’s not too much xD. Maybe going overly fast can become annoying, but that’s about it. Like he barely has one kill skill that’s even that great or provides some insane buff. They also left out the ONE kill skill that SHOULD stack - playing dirty. Why doesn’t playing dirty stack.

The only reason I mention adding bonuses to those tier 5 skills is because I don’t think gearbox plans on directly changing anything. If nerves of steel was given a crit bonus, which makes sense with accuracy, I would personally actually put it into some builds. I don’t know what they could add to like a ghost. And honestly lets be real, you use violent violence in some builds becuase there’s nothing else lol, it does add some fire rate, but like idk. It needs a bonus as well.

Right. Mostly because i like Dahl assault rifles and they kinda have lower firerate.
Kill skills with passive status and stacks more than twice like cool hand and stacking playing dirty maybe by number of shots if more than 2 stacks? At 5 kills would be like 9 shots with 2 projectiles.
… Or 5 shots with 6 projectiles :rofl:


His kill skills are NOT kill skills.

They are passives that require kills to activate. Get it?

You can compare many of Zanes “kill skills” with other VH passives and they are weaker BEFORE you incorporate the kill condition.

To make it simple:

Salvation - Up it to 3-6-9-12-15

Violent Violence - Make it stack 3 times

Playing dirty - Make it 100% chance on kill with 1,2,3,4,5 extra shots per level, and make it stack 3 times for a bank of 15 shots.

Cool Hand - Make it stack 3 times

This will encourage his hitman build to be aggressive and go for the kills like it should.

Of course, trash skills such as Like a Ghost, DTM and Nerves of Steel need a buff to just make them viable. They are meme level bad. Maybe give a bonus crit damage to frozen for NoS or Refrshment.


I actually love your playing dirty fix more than I’ve seen anyone’s suggestion on that skill, I’ll probably end up using that when I make a real thread or vid.

Violent violence should also give passive buff just like cool hand. Also while talking about cool hand, all kill skills should stack at least up 4 easily. This means they are still conditional, you’ll have to get a LOT of kills in SHORT periods of time since each kill skill still wears off at it’s own time.

And NOS just needs unconditional buff lol, it is meme level bad, jesus christ.

I still don’t know what they could do to fix like a ghost.

Buff ideas.

Techspurt: 25% to refresh SNTL and SNTL adds debuff to enemies akin to “It’s Piss” grenade. This makes it useful outside of a CCC build and gives it a niche.

Cold Warrior: Zane has nothing at all to boost element damage so this does nothing. Instead make it do bonus damage to frozen enemies. Critical hits to Frozen enemies ricochet to nearby enemies. Again a niche, a play-style, strong.

Anti-Freeze: Well make it actually anti-freeze :smiley: Immune to cryo. Raise the sliding/jumping damage to 75% because it’s not worth the effort for 40% and it still under-performs vs Executor in every way possible. If not damage increase allow sprinting and shooting. Actually just do that ■■■■ the damage.

Shockerator: Pretty much useless as is. — Digi clone gains shock on his attacks that chain to nearby enemies. A niche, a playstyle.

Executor: You got one right, don’t touch it.

Infiltrator: Hey 2 in a row, good job.

SNTL Augments:
Winters Drone: 15% slow chance added to it’s cryo attacks. This never slows/freezes anything and it should.

Bad Dose: I personally like what this does.

Boomsday: Does anyone use this? Very doubtful. Triple the damage at least.

Static Field: Good but it needs to scale. 349 per second is pitiful at higher levels of gameplay and does very little which causes people to exploit using low level shields. Make it actually strong.

Almighty Ordinace: Another unused augment. I don’t even know, just make a new one or something. Sorry no ideas here.

Clone Augments:
Binary System: Add more freeze chance. Otherwise decent.

Schadenfreude: You got one right. Leave it alone.

Dopplebanger: Pretty decent, make it refund more skill cooldown time, that way the damage falloff at higher mayhems is less painful. Make it activate quicker.

Which ones real: Alot of people think this doesn’t work. But it just has a tiny radius, extend that, add 2 more seconds to it’s duration.

Digital Distribution: Fix it and make it do what it says it does and maybe then it’s good.

Barrier Augments:
Charged Relay, Nanites or Some ■■■■■, Retaliation: All great, let them work with a carried Barrier for reduced effectiveness.

All Rounder/Deterrence Field: You got two right, leave them alone.

Best Served Cold: Increase the damage to something meaningful because it’s actually pathetic. Increase radius at higher investments.

Distributed Denial: Fix it, it breaks shields, it doesn’t work with half the stuff. Does anyone use this?

Nerves of Steel: Add bonus Crit damage, this is a huge investment for some accuracy and handling.

Violent Violence: Chance to not spend ammo. Pretty niche skill otherwise.

Kill skills: Baseline passive bonuses = to what 1 stack currently gives. Allow 2 stacks on top of that.

Seein’ Red: Zane’s bossing capstone. Increase duration of kill skills it activates, otherwise it’s not good for what it should be good for, bossing.

Calm Cool Collected: Already strong. But add that when it refreshes his action skills it’s like he used them again. This means it procs Seeing Red and/or ASE anointments. This fixes Zanes ASE anoint issue.

Donnybrook: Needs more health regen.

Praemunitus: 10%/20%/30%.

Duct Tape Mod: Increase chance significantly. This skill is laughable among Zane players currently.

Quick Breather: Fix it PLS

Old-U: Fix it PLS. Also make it activate quicker.

Like a ghost: Increase %'s slightly, add chance to absorb bullets as ammo in magazine.

Trick of the light: Increase significantly.

Every skill I didn’t mention I personally feel is in a good spot.


First of all wow, love a lot of these ideas, like I said above would you mind if I used some in a vid and future post? I want to collect all the best buff ideas there are. My responses tho:

Techspert + bad dose
Responding to both of these at onces because I actually think bad dose should just change to an it’s piss. I think bad dose is so awful, what does it add 6% movement speed and 2% fire rate? Those just seem so bad lol, I honestly don’t know how you notice a difference, but I don’t want to sound like I’m mocking you or something, I just truly never noticed anything while using this skill :D. And yes techspert is so awful just needs a strict buff. And it wouldn’t be unwaranted considering how bad I think the drone is in general lol.

Almighty Ordnance: Throw 3 of your currently equipped grenade mod instead of 3 rockets, if you get a kill you get to use almighty ordnance again.

Doppelbanger: pointing this one out because I actually agree with it, if it refunded time it would be insanely more useful. It’s kind of hilarious how this is one of his best augments because it lets you blow your action skill for resetting lol.

Distributed Denial is extremely good with the shields it does work with. Stop gap, booster shields, nova shields, it even works with brawler ward you gain bonus weapon damage and melee damage for a few seconds when your barrier goes down.

Violent Violence: once again pointing this out because it’s a beautiful upgrade, never thought of that. Maybe if it had a chance to auto reload your gun each time even.

Seein Red: I think it became much better with this patch considering stacked kill skills, and if they were allowed to be stacked further this will become even better. Would not mind some extra bonuses in general though ;).

Duct Tape Mod: Honestly this skill is only laughable because grenades are not particularly good in M4 :/. More chance would not hurt tho


Anything I say on the forum is public use in my mind. Do with it as you wish.

I like this a lot.

Yeah I messed with it a little bit but got discouraged at what was broken. I’ll take your word for it, pretty sure it needs some fixes though.

This one is hard to think of how to do right. But it currently just doesn’t work great against a tanky boss like say Agonizer. You have strong burst but it falls off too soon. Maybe critical hits can extend duration or something. Or some way to have a chance to refresh it.

True I think it needs a higher chance still though. It would allow for actual builds around it.


My thought on Like A Ghost is that the percentage of bullets being ignored should be scaled to increase with your current speed. This would make it so moving fast/moving at all would have both offense and defense purposes.

It would also mean that a Splattergun slide during bullet reflect with an Antifreeze would be less of a death sentence.

■■■■ you Tyreen.


Neat idea!

This would be way too strong. I’d say one or the other, personally. It doesn’t do bad damage for what it is, the main limitation is using it once per activation (including refreshes).

Personally all I’d do is make it refresh when Zane’s skills are reset through freezing an enemy. It’d really enhance a Barrier / SNTL build (Barrier / Doppelganger being the favourite currently) and make shield management / proccing Cyro rewarding (even on Anointed - I think you can trigger the frozen state to refresh skills, even if it doesn’t actually freeze them).

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Maybe stacking twice seein red? One action skill activation means twice stacked kill skills, second action skill activation get twice stacked kill skill bonuses x 2.

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What grenade in the game makes this way too strong? Even just using M3 as an example. Sure, you can chain it against small weak enemies, but you can’t kill a badass or anointed with 3 grenades.

And tbf I think this skill refreshing your SNTNL if you get a kill is very redundant, with techspert and CCC in the game. We have one good way everyone’s refreshing action skills, and then a horrible class mod and this horrible augment. This is the last augment in the skill tree, it should be good. This would not be too good considering it takes about 4 seconds to activate.

On top of that Zane has INSANE grenade regeneration with pocket full of grenades, and you could easily be throwing WAY more grenades than this skill does, and I think you’d chain kills way less often than you think.


I would honestly rather see kill skills just have a more substantial effect rather than stacking them. Zane players already have to work 2-3 times harder than other classes to end up with arguably marginally less dps than they can output. We shouldn’t have to be overly worried about having to stack kill skills as well just to try and remain somewhat relevant. Especially true in 4 player games.

Also, if Kill Skill stacking is gunna continue to be a deal with Zane then something like this^ with some reasonably good passives attached to Kill Skills definitely needs to happen.

I saw one of your videos. Good schtuff keep at it.

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I just realized my playing dirty idea would be hard to implement with DFC.

How about keep procc % but make extra bullets 2,4,6,8,10, stackable 2 times for 20 bullet bank.

I like the stacking idea bc it synergizes with 2 action skills. Pop both - get two stacks, synergize with synchronicity, become POWERFUL and go on the hunt for more KILLS to keep the stacks up.

You know - like a HITMAN should be.


Oh yeah, meant to address this from your op: Zane’s Tier 5 skills are worse than pitiable and needs help. In some cases, say Like a Ghost?-just need a complete rework.

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Honestly I don’t see why Violent Violence couldn’t have had like +15-20% Gun Damage. It fits thematically with the class and the tree and I don’t think breaking down and giving Zane a tiny little gun damage or crit somewhere is gunna put him over Driver levels of insanity.

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i like my digi-clone grenadier, better than the barrier.

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Replace with Nuclear Winter, same function but chance to freeze enemy. If enemy is frozen in manner, reset SNTL duration.

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