Unfortunately, I am on ps4. Thanks for the offer though.
As a grenade Zane, who spams infinite grenades. No this would not be way to strong. At ALL. Grenade just do not scale well in M4. I have to throw grenades constantly. Zane has no splash damage or grenade buffs even though he should since one of his trees have 3 grenade related skills. If you ask me 3 is being conservative. I use a Moxxx’s Bouncing pair.
Amara has more splash damage in her trees and she has no grenade synergy at all
My only request is that you post your actual list for any developer to lazy to clink your link
To be fair, I also think we shouldn’t be balancing for M4, but I also understand people need to play it, hah.
M4 breaks a lot of things. Zane has problems outside of M4 that other VHs simply don’t have. All VHs (possibly excluding Amara) have issues on M4.
That is because Zane gets skills that are awesome and fun to play with no synergies aside from killing or activating AS. Got a grenade? MANY! Got Cryo? Cool! Got more Cryo? Super Cold! Got Speed? Super Fast! Got Gadgets? Throws a barrier over SNTL and clone! Got Passive damage? Err Kinda,… Want to buff any of that with a skill? Well errr uhhh can’t?
I only have general thoughts about buffing, I’ve made more specific suggestions in other threads. What I will say in general are these:
I hope to god the developers do not take our suggestions and put them into new COMs. A lot of what we are asking for needs to in Zane’s INTERNAL toolkit/Tree. My faith in the developers have waned and I would not put it past them to put something like Sprinting While Shooting in a class mod.
My genenral thoughts are as follows, how the developers go about it is less of a concern as long as they are not tied to COMs
- Zane needs to be able to sprint while shooting
- Zane needs to have higher internal cryo efficiency and cryo damage than Amara
- Zane needs to have increased crit damage since he has MANY accuracy related skills
- Zane needs to have higher increased grenade or area of effect damage since he has half a tree focused on grenades and MANY augments that use area of effect damage
- Zane needs every/most kill skill to have a baseline passive bonus and the kill skill bonus needs to HIGHER than other VHs with similar skills.
- Zane needs his barrier augments to work regardless of whether his holding it or it’s on the ground. Whether it’s reduced effect when he’s holding it doesn’t matter.
- Zane needs 3 of his 6 COMs completely reworked. Shockerator, Cold Warrior and Techspert are 3 of the worst mods in the game.
- Zane needs antifreeze COM to make him completely immune to slowing PERIOD.
- Zane needs better anointments
I will link to a thread I’ve created that have more specific ideas about COMs
Using a combination of Duct Tape Mod, Clone, and Drone you can throw 3 grenades at once BY ACCIDENT. I’m telling you even on Mayhem 3 you were definitely not clearing a room or even killing 3 mobs with something like Ordinance dropping 3 grenades at once
I don’t know what you’re arguing with in my post. I already said to the other poster I wasn’t particularly fussed if Zane gets silly buffs.
It’s just not what I prefer, and I’ve given my thoughts on what I think would be a decent improvement to that particular augment. Also, just to be specific. It’s not just “dropping three grenades at once”. It’s “dropping three grenades at once and getting the ability to do it again as soon as you kill a single enemy with those three grenades”. Killing a single enemy is ridiculously easy.
No? I’m not here to respond to random challenges about what people don’t think the problems are. I don’t play on M4, but I trust the players who do. You should argue with them, instead of me, because honestly I think it’s going to be a fun read.
It was your comments that contained the letters, words, and sentences that I quoted. You even italicized some of it so I thought you were making a serious observation. Thus I asked you to clarify so that I too could understand what the underlying issues are that the italics represent.
A five point investment into one skill (Arms Deal) in one tree (Brawl) for 20% increase to Splash Damage at max to be precise. Not exactly huge. It’s mostly to benefit splash damage on elemental weapons and grenades both offensively and defensively so I wouldn’t say no synergy either.
Zane buffs are well and good but it’d be nice if people actually read up Amara’s mechanics and skills before using her as a ‘why isn’t my character better’ measuring stick.
I base my opinions on the reasoned posts of people in this and other Zane threads. It’s my opinion, and that’s all I have on it. Feel free to chase up someone else to talk about it - I’m freely admitting I can’t, and I’ll also happily say your post hasn’t convinced me otherwise.
You mention outliers, I posted a link above where I solo’d maliwan takedown with 0 skill points. Even with the recursion it was still very challenging, I only succeeded once in probably over 50 attempts. But regardless, a skilled player will succeed at some point no matter of the skills themselves, as I did with literally 0 skill points. If the question is balance, then it has nothing to do with pairing “right gear” with “right skills” or mechanics. The question is. is this characters overall skill set up to par with the content, or other characters. My answer and many others is no. Like I mention in my original post, I am the last one who should be asking for buffs considering not one of my videos on my channel of like 50+ videos or something shows Zane struggling at all. But the fact is the average Zane player struggles harder than nearly every other average player on other vault hunters.
So I am not trying to diminish your accomplishments, and I appreciate you and others like us showing how to use this character better, but I don’t think right now is the place to bring that up lol. Talking about how if your successful with gear and game mechanics would only sway developers to give less buffs, when in reality we need more IMO.
I don’t dispute that. What I’m disputing, as I said in the final part of my comment, is the constant drumbeat that “Zane can’t do X”. That’s it.
Yah that’s not true(referencing zane can’t do x), but like I said I solo’d wotan with 0 skill points. That basically proves he can do anything, I’m simply saying now is not the time to really bring that up if that makes sense. We need to talk about how and why we should implement buffs.
And like you probably saw me edit in that last paragraph, I’ve watched some of your vids and read some of your posts, and truly appreciate what you do for this character. Even if only a few zane mains read it, posts like that give them hope lol, and I’m not trying to diminish it in any way, seriously. You use skills that are commonly unused and make them look good, that’s what someone positive in the community does.
Huh? You said nothing that opposes what I said yet you have a combative tone as if you just demolished a point I’ve made. 20% is STILL more than Zane has. Which is the point of the post. Zane has ZERO. Balance is relative. If Amara barely needs the skill why does she have it, while Zane NEEDS the skill and doesn’t have it?
I’m sorry if Amara is THE BEST DESIGNED character in the game thus all balancing discussion by nature have to go through her. She’s the model.
First, I didn’t start it!
Second, that’s not necessarily the case. If GBX devs are so immature that they can’t separate one set of arguments from the other then this game is doomed!
You and I and others know that it’s not true but the idea that it is keeps coming up on these forums.
You know what? Fine! I’m no longer going to point out when someone who clearly doesn’t have a clue about how Zane works gets on these forums and complain about how bad he is because if those complaints are what you think it takes to get GBX to address Zane then so be it because I’m totally onboard for a better Zane.
I agree with the both of you. I think the point that @flightx3aa is making from my perspective is that, when dicussing buffs for a character, it is not… “strategically beneficial” to yell from the hilltops that Zane is fine and awesome. Developers see what they want to see. Ive been on MMO forums for years and have experienced this phenomenon first hand.
Every 10 “buff Zane” post is the equivalent of 1 “Zane is fine” post to a developer. It’s called Confirmation Bias
Edit: Btw I think it’s a large part of why we got nerf buffs like this
- Pocket Full of Grenades* bonus slightly decreased from 6.5% to 5% as it now stacks
- Violent Violence bonus slightly decreased from 4% to 3% as it now stacks
Amara has more splash damage in her trees and she has no grenade synergy at all
I was taking issue with the inaccuracy of the statement for the sake of being dramatic (one tree, one skill she does have synergy). I’ve noticed it’s a trend when talks of Zane come up and it doesn’t really make for a good discussion. Do you not think your tone is combative since you’ve commented on mine? You’re deciding what character needs or doesn’t need because the character you favor doesn’t have it (ex. Zane should have higher cryo damage than Amara despite the fact that she’s a Siren and elemental damage as a whole is usually higher than every other character.)
No, I meant, the gun damage should be in addition to the fire rate. I feel he could use a little raw gun damage sprinkled a bit more in his trees.