#81

I think that Vaygr does 92500 damage with hits volley compared to Hiigs 60k is what counteracts that it’s not turreted…

Even at 5300, it’d have a slight range advantage.

#82

I still think a simple ‘can’t move backwards at 100% speed’ would fix things in this regards…as long as both BCs get it.

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#83

[quote=“innociv, post:81, topic:154724”]
I think that Vaygr does 92500 damage with hits volley compared to Hiigs 60k is what counteracts that it’s not turreted…
[/quote]Yet they still have about a 50/50 chance to kill each other in a straight up fight right? If that’s the case then whatever the damage numbers are, having no turret vs having a turret should have an additional trade-off which is less range for the turreted one. I think you are and I are thinking the same here, but you feel the range should just be closer. Is this right?

Personally, I think the real issues is the kiting ability, not the range.

[quote=“paradoxnrt, post:82, topic:154724, full:true”]
I still think a simple ‘can’t move backwards at 100% speed’ would fix things in this regards…as long as both BCs get it.
[/quote]Exactly my thought!

Then again here, you also see how having your hard hitting weapons on turrets is an advantage in general. If the HBC turns tail to run, it can still pump out tons of damage to the enemy fleet through its ion cannons and regular guns shooting to all sides. If the VBC turns and runs, well it’s lost probably 2/3rds of its utility.

It really seems like the VBC is a unit that is meant to commit to a single target and hit hard when it goes in. If it gets caught in inhibitor field, gets its engines taken out or both, its very vulnerable to any sort of flanking attack.

The VBC is also in trouble in the same situation, but can still take plenty of the enemy fleet with it.

There is a bit of asymmetry here that I like, but it doesn’t seem to be working right with the 0-100 kiting.

#84

I think that combat maneuvers in general need to be nerfed to some degree for all ship classes especially HW2 ships as most of them have a higher base speed than the Kushan/Taiidan equivalents. Being able to move in reverse while still bringing all your guns to bear (kiting) should be penalized in some form - retreating a ship whilst still maintaining 100% combat effectiveness is not good gameplay, regardless if all races can do it.

#85

Please look at my topic regarding whole changes and how i approached it here changes . With this kind of approach you have to get first hw1 races reworked and if you have a different philosophy like I did there is no use in reworking hw2 without getting worked on hw1.

I understand that this is on hw2 engine of course, but this was GB’s choice. They should anticipate such problems especially with original hw1 staff onboard. Justifying every change for the hw2 races by only the fact of the hw2 engine is infantile. It’s like in the military -

  • Why do we do to need it this way? We can do it like this and it will be more efficent Commander!
  • STFU, i’m the commander here, I make the rules!

If you have 2 F1 racing cars and 2 WRC you don’t twink F1’s to be the same and then get on the WRC’s. First you match WRC’s because you need to remodel everything. That’s my opinion, it is subjective and I can always be wrong :wink:

#86

[quote=“dragonPSA_RHN, post:85, topic:154724”]
I understand that this is on hw2 engine of course, but this was GB’s choice. They should anticipate such problems especially with original hw1 staff onboard. Justifying every change for the hw2 races by only the fact of the hw2 engine is infantile.[/quote]
Well, I call this weird phenomenon “logic”.

Both races were close to be balanced in HW2. There were some severely underused ships on both sides, some strengths and weaknesses depending on the maps, but it was close. So, why reinvent the wheel? The answer is - you don’t. You put the chassis on it and go from there.

Likewise, I think HW2 is a hugely superior game to HW1 and Gearbox made a smart move by making it the basis of HWR.

3 Likes
#87

In my humble opinion the ability to see what exactly your oponent can build combined with simplistic RPS system is just not ambitious enough. That’s why I rather hw1.

Also. This is called homeworld remastered. Not homeworld 2 remastered with additional hw1 ships so hw1 should not be put on hw2 terms, but that’s just my opinion :slight_smile: please look at my topic and reply your thoughts regarding the proposed changes. Especially capital changes.

#88

Likewise, I think HW2 is a hugely superior game to HW1 and Gearbox made a smart move by making it the basis of HWR.

Finally someone said it. Sorry folks living in the past, HW2 is the way to go.

Being able to move in reverse while still bringing all your guns to bear (kiting) should be penalized in some form - retreating a ship whilst still maintaining 100% combat effectiveness is not good gameplay, regardless if all races can do it.

Kiting is good, but it shouldn’t be possible with bcs.

1 Like
#89

So it seems that most of the guys here like the idea of BCs NOT being able to kite backwards at 100% speed. Hope the Devs read that!

That said, there probably should be no ships that move backwards at 100% speed lol!

1 Like
#90

Dems fighten’ words

2 Likes
#91

I have to wonder if you played HW1 or Cata, as a player of all three I feel the first was far superior to the second and Cata improved upon the winning formula. It had issues but no one could make as big a comeback in HW2 as they could in the first game. IMHO HW2 took the wrong aspects of HW and HW:C and left off the best.

5 Likes
#92

Could you clarify this?

#93

It’s always been really hard to put my finger on why I like in descending order HW:C, HW1, HW2. But I think it comes down to the balance between what you are actually doing in game.

In HW1, The majority of your time was spent maneuvering your fleet and fighting. Each loss of each unit was felt. You still had to manage research and build, but for the most part it wasn’t a race to a particular tech, it was who used their fleet better.

HW:C started drifting in the direction of HW2, and was much better for making comebacks. Tactics and counter tactics were just as numerous, but additions like upgrades really added some flavor to a game that still felt just like HW (was in the same engine). It seemed a bit smaller. The MS would’ve dwarfed the CS if you put them side by side, however the CS being more mobile with formidable ship guns made for some great full on CS rush strats. I’ll forever miss the micro involved with getting the better position on a CS vs CS so that more guns were barring one them then theirs on mine.

HW2 took the feeling of HW1 and HW:C away (I didn’t realize at the time it was due to the engine change) and went apeshit with the spice that was the HW:C upgrades. Then the chassis change discrepancy pissed everyone off just as much. You still see today, 12 years later people complaining about how powerful BCs are compared to DDs, compared to Frigates, etc. You spent less time enjoying the ‘in the battle’ part of the game and more time doing other things and occasionally checking on the sensor manager to make sure you dots weren’t dining.

Watch this video for a small example of how HW1 battles are fought. This is just me showing typical, elementary movement vs a CPU. Then imagine 2 humans fighting this way trying to both wear down and climb up vs the other player. Every vette, every frigate, every collector counted along with your firing angles. Support micro, attack micro, and you still had to keep your research and build going. BUT IN THE BACKGROUND!

3 Likes
#94

Never liked the repair meta. Honestly, I played all three, and Cataclysm was the best of the old engine games. People can have different opinions, that’s what’s great about this. I’m in the HW2 camp being superior. Just the balance was off.

Everything about the engine except strike craft formations (which were immersion breaking for me anyways) is better. Plus the squad mechanic was introduced.

We all have our own reasons, let’s just accept that and get along :smile:

#95

Though I agree, support frigs were definitely rather OP in HW1.

I totally agree that they should have their proper healing beam and all that stuff, and maybe that guns should shoot while they’re healing(though maybe not!). But they shouldn’t be buffed to be as strong as they were in HW1.
It seems like their healing rate is pretty fine how it is, and the only problem is that they have to latch and the latching is buggy.

Many things about how the HW1 engine and game mechanics worked were super cool, but it had a few glaring balance issues.

#96

I’ll check it out.

#97

We seem to be going in all kinds of different directions. Let’s stay on topic.

#98

Yeah, I strongly feel the modules system in HW2 was a massive improvement. Other good RTS have scoutable tech buildings for a reason.

I wish these could be incorporated into HW1 races so hard, but so many people are against it, which makes it even harder to balance things if HW1 races will have that massive “unscoutable” advantage.

#99

HW2 took the focus away from ships combat and placed it on spy and sabotage, on a good HW2 only match you will notice the players main agenda is to find out what the enemy is doing and where is his softest spot. you see small strike groups moving back and forth, harassing RU ops, destroying subsystems to cripple tech upgrades, fleet building and RU collection or testing the enemy forces, good players will rarely get to build BC as the match get decide at frigate/DD levels but if they do BC, it is because it has been a close match and is time for the sudden death (that’s why these units are so powerful) and even at this stage you see some nice come backs with the employment of cloak generators and fire control towers that you usually don’t see in early-mid game

#100

It is scoutable, you can send probes and see what the enemy is building, of course you can keep things docked, but to be honest that is not a usual move, I only keep things docked to keep them protected until a reasonable number is ready to fight, and avoid that one by one fighter killing on launch.
And to be honest for hw1 scouting is resumed to is he doing swarm/ gravs / capital. It is not like they gonna do the destroyer hyper rush. The research tree doesn’t allow that.
The only real advantage for no modules is stop production, can’t do that against hw1, but again, it is an asymmetric game.

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