#101

Well anyways.

Battle cruisers not being able to reverse at full speed sounds like a decent idea to test. It just needs to be made sure that this doesn’t inadvertently affect movement for other classes of ships, especially sideways movement for HW 2 Destroyers, or it will kill their broadside functionality.

Hopefully we can test one thing at a time. I’d like to propose we hold off on the range reduction of the Trinity Cannon until after we see the effects of reduced reverse speeds. One change at a time is usually much easier to measure, but I’ll go with whatever the devs feel is best.

#102

Keep in mind that ‘no 100% speed reverse’ hurts the Vaygr BC more than the Hiig BC. If ever the Hiig has to retreat, it can turn around while still delivering full damage. If the Vaygr BC needs to turn around, its damage output to targets behind it are halved.

Also, defense fields CAN’T stop Hiig BC Ion Beams…but they have a 50% chance of stopping Vaygr BC Heavy Rockets.

The Vaygr BC has so many weaknesses compared to the Hiig BC!

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#103

Oh I agree. I feel that the Hiigarian battlecruiser is the best one in the game due to its flexibility, weapon behaviour and subsystem layout. But, it still needs to be a fair(ish) fight, and if the Vaygr BC can 100% kite then it’s basically an exploit.

Once that loophole is tied up, you actually have a place to start when it comes to tweaking the asymmetrical balance of the faction’s units.

#104

You’re removing asymmetry from the game by equalising the ranges. Hiigs has better coverage, vaygr has better range. I also like how you’re saying yea, the Hiig BC is the best ship in the game but lets nerf the only ship that in some cases can kill it. Wouldn’t want that now would we :stuck_out_tongue:

#105

Sorry was that in reply to me ForceUser? I definitely hope the VBC keeps the range advantage, but 100% kiting is a broken mechanic at worst, and unnecessary micro at best. I want the VBC to win on its own merits :wink:

#106

…you mean you want to VBC to work hard, learn life’s in and outs, and then realise its potential fully…all without mom or dad pulling some strings to help it out? (that’s a good natured joke, not an insult!)

VBC IS inferior to the Hiig BC…but it has a range advantage that it sometimes can use to its advantage! But, Destroyers/Frigates can take on a Vaygr BC by flanking it …since the Trinity Gun doesn’t track well = Destroyers/Frigates will take only a few losses.

The Hiig BC will eat those Destroyers/Frigates if they try the same (unless so numerous the Hiig BC gets worn down).

#107

Hah!

All good points, and things that can get addressed through raw stats I hope; turn rate, HP, missile torpedo range/speed etc.
Or more to my hope, through fleet combinations 1st, and some stats second.

All in good time though. The balance mod has yet to start, then we can get more into the meat of things! :poultry_leg:

#108

Yeah, but I actually enjoy the Hiig BC is beaten by Vaygr BC…but then Vaygr BC is beaten by Destroyer/Frig group!

I think that IS asymmetrically balanced!

#109

The original post points something out. A fact of life for Homeworld Remastered players.

However, I am struggling to figure out how this range is a problem. The only way it’s a problem is if the entire battle consists of Battlecruisers.

I think the topic has nowhere to go anymore.

1 Like
#110

I would but Ratamaq did so much better just below you.

#111

[quote=“ForceUser, post:104, topic:154724”]
You’re removing asymmetry from the game by equalising the ranges.[/quote]
Not at all.

Watch the video again. Hiigaran BC might as well have zero coverege, when it can’t fire on the enemy BC.

1 Like
#112

I’ve replied to this train of thought numerous times already.

#113

The thing is though, that’s some kind of behaviour bug. If the ship doesn’t retaliate by itself, I would blame some range settings in its “Frontal” attack style.
The kiting is a problem, so yes. But I would still look if the Hiigaran BC acts correctly first, then nerf the Vaygr…

#114

Oh, another thing! The Vagyr BC will eventually be taken out by minelayers (it can’t shoot at them unless they get into point defense range). Meanwhile, the Hiig BC’s burst canons make short work of minelayers.

Just another out of a long list of advantages that the Hiig BC enjoys over the Vaygr BC.

…and yet, most of the guys here are still talking about further nerfing the Vaygr BC??? What am I missing?

PS: The counter to Vagyr BC range is simply putting a Cloak Generator on the Hiig BC. The cloaked single (or group) of BCs get into range and fire = end of Vaygr ‘kiting’ advantage…it works EVERYTIME!

#115

This accurately sums up my thoughts on this issue.

The Vaygr BC could certainly stand to gain buffs to better project its damage to targets since it is very inept in this regard (missiles take time to reach, hull mounted weapons take time to aim each target individually) and is mostly the reason people prefer and use Hiigaran BCs to greater success.

However, letting it keep a mechanic which allows it to kite and kill an enemy Hiigaran BC without taking any damage from it is not the answer.

The suggestions to dismiss this issue, due to the existence of certain counters, are not fair since said counters tend to rely on situations where the skill level is asymmetric between players or the situation is already in favor of one side e.g.:
“Just snipe out the Vaygr BC’s engines with bombers!” as if Vaygr BCs are inherently unsupported against strikecraft by players.

#116

I really like how the Vaygr BC operates mostly, it has real limitations. I would not buff it however. Infact why on earth would you want to buff it? Why not drop the Hiigaran BC a peg?

At this point I honestly don’t know how anyone can suggest fielding bombers as a counter to BC, they’ll just get cut to pieces while your opponent gets further ahead. They can only be used in conjunction with a superior/equal force, which you probably don’t have when the BC pops out, even if you did, it’s likely the bombers would be momentarily obliterated before achieving anything, because you:

  1. cannot send the bombers ahead, they’ll get cut to pieces by fighters and frigates.
  2. cannot send anything in to destroy fighters because of the frigates, and anything larger will be decimated before being able to kill anything.
  3. are now 2k RU in the hole from building bombers and your opponent is half way through building a second BC.
#117

Vaygr frigates are not good at killing assault craft though. You will destroy that engine with Imp Bombers; I don’t doubt it.

#118

Out of curiosity, what kind of change was given to BC?

#119

It’s may still not be final and it’s not like it can’t be changed again later.

#120

Scole’s post is right after this, where Cloaked directly adressed him.