Hiigaran Torpedo Frigates VS. Resource collectors

So a Hiigaran Torpedo Frigate will destroy a HW2 collector in two hits (1 volley), and a HW 1 collector in 4 hits (two volleys). Does this seem a little too good to anyone else?

By comparison, the Vaygr Heavy Missile Frigate has to lob four of its large torpedoes to kill a HW 2 collector, and almost 12 to kill a HW 1 collector. Its fire rate is also much slower.

It seems like the time to kill (TTM) for Hiigaran Torpedo frigates is a bit out of line against collectors. Should this be something that is adjusted, or should other options be looked at such as lowering the cost of anti-frigate platforms or other such solutions?

I’m sure everyone is quite familiar with the Hiigaran Torpedo Frigate rush on maps such as Shield, and has been caught off guard by how fast your resource collectors will vanish if you’re not paying attention. It can be countered if you know it’s coming, but will usually beat someone who is doing the regular Interceptor -> Corvette tech path. I guess it just leads to a very unsatisfying game play, and the speed of damage is surprising especially when compared to other heavy hitters like Destroyers, Ion Frigates, and HMFs.

Any thoughts?

@RedDevilCG The reason for that is due to penetration value for armor types, the upgraded torpedo has full pen vs resource armor while the HMF launcher does only 20 percent damage vs that type.

On shield, I find rushing frigs gets you killed. You will lose to inti spam before you ever get them out.

I don’t think its an issue.

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I think its fine.

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Ya, just scout and get some bombers to counter. Torp rushes are good when they work, and bad when they’re countered properly.

From tests that were made on the mod, hyper-torp is a strategy that can be really really easily stopped by producing fighters, even interceptors with no bombers will do the job, bombers are recommended though.
It is all about awareness.
And now inhibitors are cheaper.
So it is fine

Ah, I was worried that the last paragraph would through this off. Countering the shield Hiig Torp rush wasn’t supposed be the topic for discussion. I had mistakenly assumed people would know my experience level with HW2 is quite high, but by typing up that example I made it look like I assumed that all of you were actually inexperienced. Apologies >.<

It was supposed to be about a more umbrella standard of consistency and player expectations. If you were to play the game as Kushan, Taiidan, and then Vaygr, you would have a built in expectation of how the basic Frigate units would work against enemy combat and non-combat craft. After this, the effectiveness of the tier 1 Torpedo frigate against harvesters would come as quite a (pleasant) surprise. Until now, you’ve never encountered a basic line unit that 1 shots harvesters with homing shots, and it doesn’t have an exaggerated, long fire cycle either.

If I was a managing developer of a company first making this game, I would be asking my team if this was an oversight. If not, then why is this feature unique to this faction and why was it not brought to the players attention as a key feature of the unit? If it is a key feature, then due to its uniqueness, a reminder or emphasis of its counter should also be implemented. If all of this sounds like a pain in the butt, then we should be standardizing its performance against harvesters to its peers, or vice versa.

TL;DR: Torpedo frigates are (seemingly arbitrary) out performing its peers against harvesters, and this should probably be tidied up by either slightly lowering its effectiveness against harvesters, or upping the effectiveness of its peers against harvesters.

Its good to have units perform differently, otherwise we’re playing chess. Devs could always add “good vs collectors” to the improved torpedo research description, but there’s bigger fish to fry.

Also:
Kushan and Taiidan assault frigates are good vs collectors too.

Vaygr HMF is comparable to the other races Ion Frigates. hw1 assault frigates and vaygr assault frigates are also comparable. Hiig Flak and Hiig Torpedo frigates are race unique.

maybe part of the fun is allowing the player to learn it for himself. :smiley:

People have brought up many good points in this discussion.

Economy units hold a special spot in any RTS, and as we all know, their destruction carries more ramifications than normal. On some level, I still don’t feel comfortable with the idea of any basic unit (line unit?) performing a “one salvo, one kill” against harvesters.

Having the game not become chess is foremost in my mind. That facet of HW1 is one of the reasons I enjoy it the least. However, changing torpedo stats to need one additional missile wouldn’t exactly be turning the game into chess. They would still be harvester killing specialist (for some odd reason), but a little bit more counter-play and time to react is introduced to the player who was caught flat footed against a clever sneak attack.

have you just been hypertorped recently?

:stuck_out_tongue:

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Eh? I don’t think I’ve ever noticed one torpedo killing a collector. I’ve hyper torped and micro’ed this strategy for many moons.

One salvo consists of two torpedoes fired in rapid successsion (like the Vaygr Destroyers firing salvos of four), and indeed those two torpedoes will kill one HW1 harvester.

So indeed you’re not wrong, but what you said doesn’t match my quote!