Homeworld 1 remastered weapons mod

Had an idea for those of us who love homeworld 1 that may… make it more like what the game used to feel like.

I got to thinking, I doubt the RNG system of homeworld 2 applies to missiles. After all they just home on and blow up when they hit there target. In essance there a tiny craft on a suicide run like you can order with your fighters and ships right?

Would it be feasible to make all weapons use this coding? Example a interseptors gun. Instead of firing projectiles that use the RNG system, instead it fires what the game thinks is missiles. Only none homing, much faster, and maybe with out the boom of the normal missile weapon. Only able to fire when pointed at its selected target.

On top of that adding a random burp like feature to all small crafts flight path, we don’t have evasive or anything so maybe this could be a constant. A small veer to the right, sudden tiny jump to the upper left as they fly in combat.

If my theory is correct, this will at least give the fighters back the life time in homeworld one (and far better dog fights) comboed with the evasive flying the RNG system will no longer be in use unless the ion beams are left on it or something.

Applie this to all projectile weapons and maybe nerf the fighters weapons and some of the feel of homeworld 1, if I’m correct, may return.

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This is what any mod that wanted simulated projectiles did but it increased lag dramatically.

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Maybe the remastered version will handle it better. It is supposedly improved and with all the changes besides graphics, I assume gearbox got it a bit more optimized.

Also, homeworld 1 got such a system to work on older computers with older tech with older programming, funny how newer stuff can’t achieve that. Then again, newer does not mean better I suppose.

There is a little point I don’t get about the HW2 engine and its fire system:
I know it’s possible to turn on a flag so that when a bullet physically hits well, it deals damage like it should, then… if you set weapon accuracy to 0%, change the engine section that displays the bullet casually missing and let it go straight as it should instead the behaviour should be identical to HW1 beside that weird 0% thing.

What I mean is: weapon would still check to be in range, have the correct arc fire and will fire as usual. But they would always miss according to the RNG system alone, while still having that bullet go exactly and possibly hit like it did in the physical simulation.

This could work in game and keep both the HW1 and HW2 mechanics at the same time! Just differentiate the miss effect so that weapons with 0% accuracy fire straight where they are aiming and voilà!

PS little correction on my part: there still needs to be some kind of trajectory prediction but that should be a minimal problem unless you have very slow bullets. In Homeworld 1 it was turned off for projectiles slower than 1000m/s for computation limits I think: on a bullet that slow is almost useless anyway because almost any enemy movements invalids the prediction.

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I’d gladly help test this out, or learn how to mod this though… I admit when I try modding things the game tends to… crash…

But what your saying… if your able or someone offers to help or do it, I’d love to help test it out.

My gosh the more I think at this idea the better it looks!
Not only it preserves both the games mechanics but sounds just so easy to implement: I’m not talking of rewriting the engine here but retouching the part that manages weapons fire and literally placing there a single if so that when the % accuracy is any but 0 you use the standard HW2 system, when it’s 0 it just shoots the bullet, maybe lead the target a bit and that’s it!

That’s largely how homeworld 1 seemed to work too, and leading the target a little that’s ok after all your not going to shoot a projectile at the target if there moving right? So that makes perfect sense.

Your idea plus the little flukes being put into the flight mechanics… lower fighters fire power and corvets as well so people don’t scream balance issues and we’d have a simulated version of homeworld 1.

This is making me regain some hope of enjoying homeworld 1 remastered :slight_smile:

Yes that @SAAA said it works and I have done it in the past. There are a few gotchas.

You can use some of the other tracking and checking functions “shoot At Secondaries” “shoot At Surroundings” “Check Line Of Fire” etc these can be used for “more” weapons but remember we are still single CPU bound.

We also got point defense working better and massive nuke explosions from some misses. All with some limitations.
Also weapon impact push is very underused.

Once the modding tools are released, I just want to try to help or see some of the old homeworld feel return. I know it won’t ever be completely back, but we can try. SAAA idea looks very promising and looking forward to trying it out if possible :slight_smile:

I know and I cant figure out why… literally every weapon can have that and it was used to make hits feel stronger in HW1: a cruiser shot could literally push a fighter out of the sky with it’s momentum!
Also pure repulsors and tractor beams, repair beams that have just negative weapon damage…

I know we are limited to single core mostly but the fact that both CPUs got better and the Remasterd refreshed performance should help a lot: I’d just not implement too many scripts at once and keep the changes mostly for gameplay, this time the graphics departement is already ok!

Other things I miss a lot are explosions damage and volume damage, you know it’s space.
That should be adressed, along with the almost useless mines… I want them to be downright nukes!
Oh that corvette layed only a couple mines: wtf they are fusion bombs? Surprise!

The problem with giving Homeworld 1 fighters physics based bullets is that that’s only half the story. The other half was the very specific way that the HW1 fighters flew to actively avoid bullets, something the HW2 fighter AI doesn’t do at all.

Doing one without the other is meaningless. A physically based bullet system would either annihilate other fighters because the fighters don’t dodge, or it would be balanced out such that they miss enough and would make no difference from an RNG system because again, the fighters don’t dodge.

If you added all the amazing flight mechanics from Homeworld 1 with the RNG based projectiles it would make a much bigger difference because fighters (and especially corvettes) can keep their guns on target much longer. This needs to be done regardless. However, in terms of hit detection and hit rates once fired, it would make no difference at all because physically dodging a bullet is meaningless and pre-determined by dice.

With the difficulty of adding either of those mechanics coupled with the fact that you can’t half-ass it and only do one, I would prefer Gearbox add a more nuanced RNG that took into account relative velocities and distance. I fully believe you could tweak such an RNG to get results very similar to Homeworld 1. Close enough that it’d be hard to tell the difference.

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I personally hate RNG based combat systems. Righto now I want it removed from the combat system. Then second would be to get the fighters and corvets combat flight paths to be a little… random. Again like a small jump to the left, a burp to the upper right ect. If possible this will simulate evasive flying, combo that with the RNG system being removed dog fights will last a lot longer, ships with slow moving guns won’t be good against the small craft but with the nerf to there fire power that way it remains ‘balanced’

Homeworld 1 did it well, and I know we won’t ever get it back fully, but want to try to get some of it back.

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Your assuming you can’t get the HW2 strake craft to dodge . . . . been there done that.

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I agree completely with your sentiments and I would hugely prefer to straight up do it the way Homeworld 1 did, but I don’t think that’s realistic given the amount of rewriting that would likely require. If it was really that simple, I think it would’ve been done by now.

Show me Homeworld 2 fighters flying the same as Homeworld 1 fighters. There’s more to Homeworld 1 flight than just “dodging,” it was how HW1 fighters could both strafe and pivot independent of their velocity and use that to their advantage in both evasive maneuvering and getting guns on target.

I get the old engine was not exactly friendly to being worked with. However one would think it would be improved upon with all these years.

However, due to the work not being done on the homeworld 1 engine, and a mod being created for homeworld 2 remastered to have homeworld 1 ships (then being sold as a full game). As such going to need to try to work with what has been done.

This thread was made in hopes we could attract those that know how to mod and see if they would be willing to… simulate some of the homeworld 1 feel. I never cared for homeworld 2 and that dropped when I learned of its RNG combat systems (counters are far too sever too, 3 ion frigates take a while to bring a destroyer down, but a battle ship firing all 3 emitters alone devistates them. the difference? One counters the other according to the game) but based on other responces, might be able to… remove the impact of the RNG system. Along with some tweaking to flight paths, should get a homeworld 1 feel.

SAAA’s thoughts, combo with a small mod in small crafts flight paths, once done, should bring back some of the feel for us homeworld 1 fans that like it more for more then just graphics.

will not ever be exact, so that was never ever a option. and you moved the goal post from just dodging, nice.
But dogfight hw2 mod 10 years ago man. Some cool things where done there and it was incorporated into allot of larger mods. so be careful of saying “can’t” when you do not know what can be done. I have had frigates orbiting a larger ships in a moving death ball to fighter dogfights that where quite enjoyable to just watch. Also very different behaviors for every class of ship attacked. There are limitations but that is the same with any engine, the important thing is that it can be extended greatly.

No. When I said dodging I meant flying the way that Homeworld 1 fighters flew, which like I said before was an integral part of why the old physics based system worked.

If you can get Corvettes to strafe around targets the correct way, hey that’s great. I don’t recall playing mods that made such dramatic changes to flight mechanics but it’s been a long time. I do know I never saw a Homeworld 2 mod with fighters that flew the same as they did in HW1, making sliding turns, reversals, and strafing everywhere to evade.

I think it can be done.

I wouldn’t count on getting the true mechanics in, but I do think with some editing to stats and some clever scripting you can get something that feels like Homeworld, particularly in balance, even if it’s only an approximation. It’s what drives me crazy about HW1R. The game looks marvelous and like everything I could have hoped, but it plays so weirdly because it’s so ungracefully shoehorned into Homeworld 2’s balance and mechanics.

Hell, that was what the mod I made years ago was all about, mimicking the Homeworld 1 balance, feel, and pacing. Even working within the vanilla systems, I felt I did a pretty decent job.

HW1R feels honestly nothing more then a mod for HW2R. Which bugs me a lot.

Once the modding tools are out, if you or others are up for it, I’d be very happy if some of HW1 could at least be… simulated. No RNG, edited flight paths, ect. Heck I don’t see how HW2R would suffer, better looking dog fights, fighters lasting longer, big guns missing small craft, making the times they do it mean something.

Always made me cringe when a scout or something got nailed by a heavy cruiser mass drive cannon, the way it would abruptly spin out of control in the direction the shot was going if it survived. Knowing it was not RNG based and shot path and flight path just happened to connect at that moment, nearly impossible to recreate, right now I don’t get that at all in HW2R for example. Or a Defender taking on a destroyer and surviving long past what was though possible, dodging to and fro just enough to not get shot, firing its tiny guns in a desbrit attempt to keep its attention off the rest of the now far off battle. Or the lone interseptor barreling into a group of enemy heavy corvets firing off a couple shots while flying so erraticly none could hope to track and hit it before the order is given quickly for it to go dock for its own safety as it takes a nasty hit to its drive section sending it off course for a moment and sparks coming off it now. .

Moments like that I loved in homeworld 1. Homeworld 2 (plus remastered) knowing its all RNG based… Its lost a large portion of its fun for me. Oh my ship was popped? RNG, or look my assult frigate survived the wing of bombers? RNG. Enemy corvet not taking a visible hit (shots going everywhere but it) yet some how losing health? RNG.

It’ll never truely return, but sometimes being able to simulate it, is better then not at all.

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I found the push function affected ships independently of their mass. “Push” seemed to do accelerate the pushed target rather than apply a force to it. Very frustrating making a weapon knock around fighters and capital ships the same exact way. Have others had the same experience? Is there a workaround? I found the “mass” field in the .ship file only affected collision damage…

Yes, you can have it effect different class ships differently, There are allot of tricks and other settings that all work together to get the effects you want. It can get complicated and this is EASY compared to HW1. something people forget or have no experience with.

Though I am confused on

what do you mean by that?