Homeworld Re-remastered and Rebalanced | Hundreds of sweeping balance changes to make HW1 and HW2 work together

Get it here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=406162738

To install

Steam Workshop subscribe seems to be bugged when used from the browser. You need to navigate to the workshop in your Steam client, it seems.
Open Steam -> Library. Click once on the Homeworld Remastered Collection to open its overview page.
Under Achievements and DLC there is a Browse the Workshop button.
Search for Re-remastered and click that result, by innociv.
Click Subscribe
Steam will download the mod (<500mb)
Next, launch the launcher and at the bottom right, under Multiplayer, there is a MODS button. Click that, and there you can activate the mod (should appear in the right column).
Then you can launch the game.

If it doesn’t show up, Steam may not have downloaded it yet.

You can play it online so long as everyone has the mod. They’ll get an error if they try to join with out.
To play it in MP you need to add -mpbeta to Properties -> Set Launch Options in steam.

Oh and I’m not going to put the source on github anymore. You can see the source of the files by going to the directory Steam creates, and extracting the big file it made there.
I’d be happy if GBX just copies everything and makes vanilla better with this. And fixes the production queue not showing, as I can’t figure that one out. I really don’t want to make a mod; I just want the game to be better.

I wanted to make this to either serve as an example to GBX of some balance/redesign changes that are needed not just to make the four races work together, but to also advance HW2 further past where Relic left it.
Or, at the very least, maybe it can make a good competitive mod. I really don’t even want to make a mod, I just want the game to be better, and the tournaments more fun to watch, so it drove me to do this.

This does not aim to add a bunch of silly or crazy things. Just better balance, hopefully better design, and introducing some more of the HW2 mechanics that are actually good into HW1. Like, say, HW2.5.

Besides bringing HW1 races up to parity, part of the goal was to also make things easier for starting players (Less junk/noob trap/inconsistent research. Less mysterious HW1 tech tree.) as much as to hopefully make things better at the highest level.
I also still wanted to maintain HW1 races identity, and give a few extra differences between them. So while some of the changes do change them, they also keep them unique from the HW2 ones just in a different way.
This does not aim to make the game just like HW1. It is made to strike a good balance between the two, squashing some design quirks of HW2, and just overall hopefully making the game more fun, balanced, and competitive.

I know this is a MASSIVE AMOUNT OF CHANGES. But I just strongly feel HW2/HWRM needs it. There’s lots of inconsistencies, and things that just aren’t balanced.

Known bugs:

Somes strings may not be updated. Some new research doesn’t say what it is, same with new HW1 production facilities. Report any that look wrong. I know a lot of the listed requirements are wrong… would think those are displayed automatically instead of hand written. :
There is no build progress bar for HW1 production facilities, but they do actually build normally. It is clickable even when it’s building up until it’s finally built. Could really use help fixing this one if anyone knows how!
Production subsystems poke out at odd angles and can be seen through, rather being flush to the hulls.

Other planned changes: (Skip to the next post for change notes if you don’t want to read a bunch of bs)

Eventually I want to completely redo damage and armor types for more consistency while maintaining 90% the same balance, but that’s a ton of number changing on every ship to do, which I already sunk a ton of time into overhauling tech.

I really want to improve strike craft range. In HW1 they had the same range that, say, ions and HCs mostly had. But the thing was, they were really inaccurate at that range because of physical ballistics. Perhaps they shouldn’t be that long, but they are crazy short. It seems more realistic and fun for them to start shooting far away, though inaccurate at that distance, and try to get in closer.
I’m not sure if the HW2 probabilityRNG takes into account distance, so yeah… It sure would be nice if we were actually given the variables and formula used to calculate hits. It’d be even nicer if it was rewritten to be more realistic probability! :stuck_out_tongue:
IE, if I wrote it then chance to hit would be something like:
angle = a float from 0-1 representing angle of movement relative to the weapon. 0 = target is heading directly toward or away from the gun. 1 = target is heading perpendicular to the gun. Could really increase the number slightly when moving away from, since it’s a bit harder to hit things on the toward side of perpendicular than the away from, as well as when moving away from than toward.
velocity = velocity in ms, ie around 70-100 for cap ships, up to 187.5 for frigs, and 180-364 for strike craft.
size = 0-1 float. So for a fighter you might have 0.05, a corvette 0.15, frig 0.5, and for a cap you might have 1.0.
projectileVelocity = velocity of a projectile, generally around 2200-5500 with kinetic weapons.
distance = how far away the target is
(1 / squareroot( max(velocity-50, 1) * max(angle, 0.1) / 100) ) * (projectileVelocity / max(distance, 500)) * size

Some examples

Fighter shooting another un-speedupgraded fighter 500 range away, where they are roughly straight behind the other fighter.
(1 / squareroot( max(260-50, 1) * max(0, 0.1) / 20 ) ) * (2200 / max(500, 500 ) ) * 0.05 = 21.4% chance
This is slightly higher than the 13% chance you get normally. Though I know that’s not a flat amount and there is some hidden code that modifies chance.
Same shot, 1500 meters away
(1 / squareroot( (260-50) * 0.1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 1500 ) ) * 0.05 = 7.1%
Say it’s at a 45 degree angle, 500 range again
(1 / squareroot( (260-50) * 0.5 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 500 ) ) * 0.05 = 9.6%
Same shot, 1500 away
(1 / squareroot( (260-50) * 0.5 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 1500 ) ) * 0.05 = 3.2%
And a 90 degree perpendicular shot at near their max range
(1 / squareroot( (260-50) * 1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 1500 ) ) * 0.05 = 2.2%

Take one of those, and say it’s vs a corvette. Head on, 500 units away
(1 / squareroot( (180-50) * 0.1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 500 ) ) * 0.1 = 47.7%
And a 90 degree perpendicular shot at near their max range
(1 / squareroot( (180-50) * 1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 1500 ) ) * 0.1 = 5%

And those same two, against a frigate without speed upgrades.
(1 / squareroot( (150-50) * 0.1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 500 ) ) * 0.5 = 100%
(1 / squareroot( (150-50) * 1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 1500 ) ) * 0.5 = 32.7%

And against a BC
(1 / squareroot( (95-50) * 0.1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 500 ) ) * 1 = 100%
(1 / squareroot( (95-50) * 1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 1500 ) ) * 1 = 97%

Lets say fighters max attack range was doubled to 3540, so we’re getting closer to HW1 attack ranges on them. Shot at max range, head on:
(1 / squareroot( (95-50) * 0.1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 3520 ) ) * 1 = 100%(just barely)
(1 / squareroot( (95-50) * 1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 3520 ) ) * 1 = 41.6%

Or here’s frigate again, head on:
(1 / squareroot( (150-50) * 0.1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 3520 ) ) * 0.5 = 44.1%
(1 / squareroot( (150-50) * 1 / 20 ) ) * (2200 / 3520 ) ) * 0.5 = 13.9%
Those numbers seem really right to me… Seems similar to what accuracy you’d expect from HW1 ships, but it’s still pretty resource un-intensive RNG.[/color]
Maybe the formula in game is really similar to that already. We have no idea… It’d be nice to know.

This way accuracy of weapons would be balanced by the “size” factor of a ship, and velocity of the projectile, and ship velocity and movement, rather than there being a table in every single weapon factor for their accuracy against difference
Right now you have things like ship type and armor type set in a ship file. Then in weapons files you have their accuracy vs every type. This would totally do away with that and you can expect a certain accuracy based on the projectile velocity and size and velocity on what its shooting instead of completely random numbers made up by who defined the weapons file. It’s sort of psuedo-sim this way.

Change log

//-Both HW1 and HW2 races both have a special queue just for resource collectors. (1+collectors for HW2, and 2+collects for HW1)
//I really noticed how boned someone would get if they lost both their fleet and collectors, when losing one is bad enough. One could not make more fleet because one needed more collection. One could not make more collectors because one had no chance of protecting them. Of course the leader in an RTS should have a noticeable advantage, but this was too much.
//Early game on a normal amount of resources to start, this doesn’t increase production much if at all.
//So all and all, it’s not as big of a change as it may sound, but it’s something helpful that may as well be there.

^Shelved this. Doesn’t seem to be possible. There is setConcurrentBuildLimit(NewShipType,0,2) but I can’t tell what the second argument is. Doesn’t look like I can limit production to a ship class. Looking through the API I know of, I’m not seeing a way to check how many build queues are being used. I can check to make sure a collector is being built, but not know how many queues are being used, and I see no way to look up what needs to be canceled in such an event. Let alone simply having a way to have a construction queue that only allows a certain ship.

Ship Changes

-HW1 collectors improved
–collect resources faster
–HP from 6000 to 8000. (HW2 are 2000 and have an upgrade that roughly doubled it)
//For reference, HW1 collectors were 10800!
–Build time from 60s to 50s (HW2 are 30s)
–Resource collection rate from 11.5/s to 13/s (HW1 are 8. It turns out, HW1 collectors being 60% slower AND costing 50% more AND taking twice as long to build, among other things, made them far worse)
–HW1 races now start with 5 instead of the 6 collectors they previously started with, and that HW2 races start with.
//Before, HW1 races would start out slightly faster due to the 6 starting ones then fall off hard. Their starting speed is now about 8% slower but they start mining faster after making 3 collectors.
//Maybe HW1 races should have a lower collector limit now? Not sure yet.

-HW1 resource controllers buffed
–No longer require cap facility
//Why was this a thing?! They absolutely can’t compete without those unless some really major changes were made in many other areas. I’m going the simpler route here, and just making these buildable at the start like HW2 ones.
//I guess I could perceive some salvage corvette rushes with them being so tanky and able to dock them. I’ll have to see if that’s really an issue. If so, it’ll require a lot of reworking to make HW1 economy work with only 2 dropoff points. Most strategies rely on being aggressive with the carrier, MS, or both, and on some maps you absolutely need 3 locations because the start is terrible.
–Max speed increased from 100m/s to 150m/s. Still accelerates and brakes at the same rate, so it takes 50% longer to get to speed/brake.

-HW2 Scouts nerfed
–EMP is now a random damage between 15% of the current effect and 100%, instead of always 100%.
//This may be overdoing it, but they are insane now. Might change it from 50-100%, depending how it plays out. Wish I could hard code a better solution but seems I’m limited when it comes to modding.
//Ideally I wanted a random duration, but that didn’t seem changable without adding a function to every single ship that’d undisable them, assuming addShield() will update the shield after it’s been depleated to replenish it. Even if that works, urg. Could greatly increase every ships shield regen…
–EMP research cost reduced from 1500 to 750. Time quickened from 70s to 45s.

-HW1 Scouts buffed
—Now fire a 6 round burst over 0.86s every 2.91s.
–Damage improved from 7.4-8.3 to 7.4-11.9
//Yes, this is a massive improvement, but they were terrible before. Still think they’re pretty bad and I should give them the 110hp they had in HW1 too instead of the 50 they have. Don’t want to overdo it yet.
–Projectile velocity improved from 1100 to 3500
–Range increased from 1375 to 1900
–Speed improved from 400 to 430
//Even with the speed ability, they hardly got faster than HW1 scouts. Was not worth the lack of EMP…
–Turn rate and general manuverability improved

-Defense Fighters buffed
–HP increased from 45 to 300
–Speed increased from 315 to 415

-Cloak Fighters buffed
–HP increased from 45 to 75
–Speed increased from 270 to 340
–Weapon reworked
—Was 2, 2 round bursts for 14.7-15.3 damage per shot over 1.3 seconds every 2.1s (28.5 dps)
—Now 2, 6 round bursts for 8-11 damage over 0.86s every 4s. (31.5 dps)
—Accuracy is now ~5x against fighters(45%) and 100%(over 4x) against Corvs, increasing DPS that much more versus those targets.
//They’ll now more often cloak between attacks. I couldn’t find a way to increase how quickly they cloak.
//Will often snipe an intercepter each pass, now. As they should, given that they’re later tech and less RU efficient.
–Range increased from 1760 to 2450
–Projectile velocity increased from 2200 to 3500

-Light Corvs rebalanced/buffed
Firstly, I really can’t stress this enough: It may look like I’m overbuffing HW1 units to make them OP, but no, they were simply that awful and needed to be buffed this much. I did lots of testing, and if anything think they may need buffed more in some cases.
–Speed increased from 205 to 280
–Damage increased from 57.332 to 180-2102. Refire time from 2.7 to 1.8.
//No wonder these were so weak… wtf. Half a lance squad(same cost) did 287.5 DPS. Light Corvs did 42.466_ with poor accuracy…
–Now does only 25% to subsystems, 50% to collectors.
–Accuracy is now 15% against fighters, 37% corvs, 80% to frigates, 100% to all else. Was 13.49%, 14.3%, 80%, 60% respectively.
//They are now a bit like something between lance fighters and laser corvs. They have lots of health compared to them, and are the fastest corvette, but their DPS is 216.7 to lancer’s effective 375, and of course no resupply.They are much better against fighters with better accuracy, however, and a bit better against corvs than Laser Corvettes are. In all: less DPS per cost, but more survivability, and DPS doesn’t drop as squad members drop. Basically it’s not the best at anything of the Strikecraft, except for having a very good mix of speed and HP, but it’s all around good.
//They will lose to actual anti-corv things like Pulsars, and only go a bit above even on fighters
//The Taiidan have those huge guns on the front. It just seems right.
//Note the tech reworks as well. They come in at a time in between when fighters and corvs usually do. They can hit resources hard if someone doesn’t get corvs or many fighters out fast.
–Kushan Light Corvette DPS is slightly lower, to account for the much wider coverage that it has.
–Taidan rotation rate increased from 166 to 195 to help it aim with how its tracking works
–General manuverability improvements

-Multigun rebalanced/buffed
–Health increased from 640 to 900.
–Speed increase from 180/185 to 220
–Cost increased from 300 to 350
–Build time slowed from 24 to 35.
–Guns… well so much has changed. They were too terrible before to compare to. Basically, the front guns used to be awful. 2 Intercepter squads would kill a multigun vette. Actually, 1 would with micro! Their guns used be be only, in total(all 6 of them), equal to like 1.5 intercepters.
—Now the front two guns are each the same as a Hiig intercepter, minus the 2 shot burst. The side guns the same, but half the fire rate.
----On Kushan, the guns are all equal and it averages out the same. This makes Taiidan’s better when firing ahead, and there are certain diagonal front-side and rear-side angles where Kushans are better.
—Side guns can now fire behind them for Taiidan
//On Taiidan, there’s some weird bug where it would crash if I tried to even make it so the side guns would rotation up/down enough, I was trying to get 240 degree coverage, which would have given them around the 78% coverage they had in hw1.
//Kushan has a similar bug. Couldn’t get them firing behind :confused:
//Instead I had to make them rotate 360 degrees horizontally (which is using the vertical argument…) to get some decent coverage.
//Looks like verticle argument effects horizontal to have one weapon definition for each gun… but that makes it so I can’t really change their angles correctly.
//And as for what makes increasing the horizontal definition, which is really their verticle, causing a crash: I have no idea.
//Yes, it looks odd and the guns rotate into the arms instead of squiveling up/down. Best I can do with that bug.
–Range increased from 1650 to 1760, 1% more on Taiidan.
–Recovery time from EMP quickened by 2x

-Heavy Corvette buffed
–Cost increased from 270 to 310
–Build time slowed from 18 to 26
–HP Increased from 650 to 1050
–Same guns as the new light corvette, except half as accurate against corvettes and fighters(since they’re short barreled as well as balance :P), instead of being worse than half a squad of intercepters…
—Kushans guns are a bit less DPS to account for their greatly increase coverage.
–Gun range reduced from 1650 to 1350
–Recovery time from EMP quickened by 2x
//Basically these are twice as good against frigates and caps as light corvs. They are almost as good vs corvs and fighters, but they cost more and build slower, so they’re really not.
//Also very tanky for a corv! But also the slowest and shortest range.

-HW1 Assault frigates rebalanced/rerolled
–HP increased from 16000 to 18500
–Each bomb is now equal to one HW2 bomb, about a 15% increase. They also do half as much shield damage to a single target as an EMP does.
–Bomb fire rate from 5.6s to 2.1. Also, the same as bombs
//This sounds like a massive increase, but they were just SO SO TERRIBLE before. Ions are still over tripple the DPS, just to be clear.
–Bombs range increased from 3000 to 4500.
–Gun Accuracy doubled to 27% against corvettes, and increased by 50% against capital ships.
//18 shots will disable another frigate(Thus, 9 is the critical mass where you can disable a frigate for, I think, 20 seconds, each volley. Not sure what point of shield they reactivate, really).
//Would take a 570 hit volley or 1140 hits in a 20 second time span to disable a BC, which I’m sure someone is wondering.
//Now they’re one of the more jack-of-all ships. Lucky bomb hits can disable strike craft, making them easy to take down. Enough fire on frigates can disable them so they’re countered a bit less by missiles/torps.

-HW1 Ions rebalanced
–Health reduced from 17000 to 16000. (Same as HW2, and thus 22% less HP per RU)
–Normal Ion Damage reduced by 7%. It’s now the same as the HW2 races.
–Every third attack now deals double damage and has a strong push like the HW1 push.
//Yes, 33.33_% more damage is quite a bit. Double for the first alpha, even. But it’s easily wasted with poor micro, and HW1 Ion frigates are just TERRIBLE before this change. The HW2 races have more speed even after the buff, and they gain like 30-40% more HP from their upgrade.
//They’re also 28% more expensive, so really they’re worse except for being more supply efficient

//Note that they are also 900 instead of 700 RU, and 73s instead of 45s build time. Of course HW1 get two production queues as well.

-HW2 Destroyers nerfed slightly
–HP lowered from 85000 to 70000.
//Start as less HP than HW1, but they get double the difference from their upgrade.

-HW1 Destroyers buffed/reworked
–Ions are now each equal to the new HW1 Ions (2 in total). Was 3708.75 every 12.5 seconds. Now 2200 every 7 seconds, plus the double damage every third shot.
//Seem like they need buffs even though the DPS looks the same as HW2 ones to me. Even with the HW2 destroyer HP nerf, these get owned. Decided not to touch them much for now.
//I think what’s going on is that HW2 Destroyer DPS is actually double due to the HOD. Couldn’t really get good tests

-HW1 Missile Destroyers rebalanced
–Speed reduced from 100 to 75
–HP reduced from 85000 to 70000
–Range increased from 4500 to 8000(the furthest in the game). Much lower damage, but splash to take out corvs/fighters.
–Missiles now actually try to hit things! Their lifetime is increased from 8/9 to 19/20 and speed is about 33% higher.
//Basically from 450 to 600. But volley had a different speed, and speed was slightly different for each race, but those have all been normalized.
–Damage greatly reduced.
—Was 742 damage during volley and 1300 otherwise, with 5.5/4 fire speed.
—Now 1000 for direct hits and in a very small AoE. Has a 300 damage larger AoE burst(which also triggers when when it overshoots/misses)
–Missiles fire rate is now the same every 2.5s it was in HW1, instead of 1.375. Well, it’s 4 missiles every 10 seconds, I should say.
//Was 945 DPS, now 400 DPS, but I’d say they’re really improved since they’re so strong with micro and give HW1 races something that’s quite good against corvs!
—Now also attacks corvs and fighters, with 5% damage to fighters(unarmed) and 50% to corvettes(light).
—Misses 70-90% of the time against fighters/corvettes, but the splash will generally still hit.
—Volley is no longer weaker than the normal missiles.
//Damage is actually half what I listed… but there is a bug making SphereBurst damage do double. So uh… well I set it to half in the files but once GBX fixes that bug it’ll be halved.
//Dps is only 400. Just a little more than an Ion. These are for their range and anti-corv. You can do quite a lot with these by jumping them around.
//Will 1shot HW2 Corvettes, until they have their health upgrade.
//Now back to more their HW1 roll.
//They’re not great, no, but they outrange everything and are the strongest single unit against corvettes even if not nearly the most cost effective.

-Grav Well frigate
–Now has 2.5x more HP, from 12000 to 30000
–Fixed the bug where it doesn’t effect Vaygr corvettes.
//These were soooooo much worse than inhib modules and just died so much easier with the changes in HW2…

-HW1 Carriers
–Health increased from 85000 to 105000
–Speed increased from 90 to 105
//HW1 carriers take FAR longer to get, and I remember them often being an integral part of fleets in HW1!

-Hyperspace module
–Cost reduced from 1000 to 500
//HW1 races get this for free built into everything, everywhere. Also, BCs are nerfed and this helps cheapen them to make up for the nerfs.

–Cost reduced. Vaygr reduced from 4000 to 2500. Hiigaran from 3500 to 2250
–Build time increased to 110s
// Note: Hyperspace also reduced down to 500 from 1000. These changes make the first BC cheaper and easier to get out, at the expensive of BCs having saner stats.
//Time that they actually get out when rushed shouldn’t change too much. Rather, they’re just less of a sacrifice and more of a part of the fleet rather than a superweapon which doesn’t work with how HW1 tech and production works even with the other changes here.

-Vaygr BC nerfed
–Missile damage down from 4000 to 2700. Refire rate improved from 30 to 25 seconds.
–Missile range reduced from 6000 to 5000.
//Fires the same missiles that Destroyers do now, just twice as many and 500 more range.
–Speed increase from 69 to 85. 106.25 when upgraded.
–Health reduced by ~41.5% from 240,000 to 140,000
//Health becomes close to HCs after upgrade

-Hiigaran BC nerfed
–Ion damage reduced from 15,000 each to 13,500 each. Refire time reduced by 20% from 15 seconds to 18. Push increased 4x.
–Cannons range reduced from 6000 to 5000.
–Cannons damage reduced from 650 to 550.
–Cannons accuracy vs Frigates and Capitals swapped. Now 60% vs frigs and 80% vs caps. Accuracy vs Corvettes is doubled to 10%.
//Notably, they no longer 1shot health upgraded corvettes, however they’re left with less than 10% hp so anything including the pulsars can easily finish them off, combined with the increased accuracy.
–Speed increased from 69 to 79. 98.75 when upgraded.
–Health reduced by ~41.5% from 240,000 to 140,000
//Keep in mind, Hiigaran BCs come out faster and the health upgrade costs less for more now.

-HW1 HCs rebalanced, slight nerf
–Ions are now each exactly equal to the new HW1 Ions (4 in total), so from 20,000 down to 8,800 damage total, plus the extra burst every third shot.
–Ions have 2x the push
–Ions refire time improved from 12.75 to 7 seconds.
–Ion range increased from 5500 to 6000.
//Yes, that’s much weaker than the insane DPS BCs normally have, but BCs are OP and more a super weapon than a normal part of the fleet before this rebalance.
//In HW1, that’s how Ion damage roughly scaled as well, and it just makes sense.
–Cannons are now 3x more accurate against fighters at 30% and 7x more acurrate against Corvettes at 45%.
–Cannons refire time slowed down by 17.5%
//They were so much worse against Corvettes than BCs before. The guns fire slower, and they lack lancers/pulsars/flechette. This should even things out. HCs were good against vettes in HW1, anyway
–Cost increased from 3600 to 4000.
//Health isn’t nerfed. HW1 HCs now have more health per RU, even after upgrades, and better sustained DPS, but HW2 HCs retain their very high burst.
//Also keep in mind that Frigates have been brought up to be more of the workhorse of HW1 fleets, and they don’t need a Shipyard, so I think it should work having their HCs overall a bit worse.

Since HCs and BCs are changed the most, here’s a breakdown

HW2 before           |HW2 after           |HW1 before           |HW1 after
240,000HP            |140,000HP           |200,000HP           |200,000HP
5000RU upgrade       |2500RU upgrade      |no upgrade          |no upgrade
384,000HP            |196,000HP           |200,000HP           |200,000HP
4880 dps (Hiig)      |3660 dps (-25%)     |4880 dps (both)     |3100 dps (-36.5%)
4833 dps (Vaygr)     |3864 dps (-20%)

Additional notes:
Hiig BC Cannon DPS was 880, now 660. (not counting PD Pulsars) Could be double that. I think it fires two shots but I really can’t tell.
Ions added 60,000 damage every 15s, 4000 DPS. Now 54,000 every 18s, 3000 DPS.
Total DPS was 4880, now 3660, a 25% reduction. Really less of a reduction because there is less overkilling happening.

Vaygr HCs shot 8 missiles every 30 seconds for 40,000 damage total, 1333 DPS. Now it’s 21600 every 25, 864 dps.
Trinity cannon did 52500 damage every 15 seconds for 3500 DPS. Reduced to 45000 every 15 seconds, for 3000 DPS.
Total DPS was 4833, now 3864, a 20% reduction.

HW1 Cannons were 1680 DPS. Now it’s 1428 but they’re more accurate against Strikecraft. //Seems to actually be more than that. The cannons seem to hit way harder than they say to me.
Ions DPS was 3200. Now 1672 DPS.
Total was 4880. Now 3100, a 36.5% reduction.
//Supposedly a big nerf, but new HW1 HCs are beating unupgraded BCs in my testing, and they clear smaller things better, so may actually need to nerf them more.

I’m not totally confident in these number because it can be unclear when things fire in volleys and such, and how much damage they really do. And accuracy is wonky since there’s lots of hidden hardcoded information.

Tech reworks

-HW2 tech now no longer has level 2 upgrades, though level 1 upgrades have been reworked and some are major buffs (marine/infil speed, for example). In otherways, HW2 tech has been made better by merging some together.
//I found these all to simply be useless fluff. Mainly there just to be there, and not there to actually make the game in any way better.
//Not only that, but level 2 armor upgrades made balance vs HW1 races nearly impossible. I think this option was best, to cut out a lot of fluff, instead of adding even more resource into an already overfilled queue to HW1 races.
–Imp Manufacturing is now one single upgrade to upgrade build speed for Mothership/Carrier/Shipyard.
—Cost increased from 1000 to 2500. Time remains the same 60s. Requires Capital Ship Facility.
–Too many adjustments to list on hull/speed upgrades that had two upgrades.
//Basically, they’ve all been lowered to 1 upgrade. That 1 upgrade has been adjusted to generally be a little better (like 1/3rd between the 1st and 2nd upgrade), but a little more expensive.
//There is also a lot of rebalancing here. There are simply too many imbalances between Hiigaran and Vaygr research to list that really may explain why Hiigaran is the top tier race possibly more than any ship differences.
//IE: Hiigaran intercepters stomp Vaygr assault craft when timed correctly because Hiigaran got 50% faster intercepters (and speed is mostly key in dogfights) for 800RU in 70s. Vaygr upgrades all fighters at once for 1600RU in 120s. Twice the cost and almost twice as long, while their fighter production specs are the same. Yes, Vaygr gets bombers and lancers upgraded at the same time, but that doesn’t help when all your fighters were killed by Hiigaran intercepters in that significant time/cost window.
//New numbers are also more consistent, which I feel is important
//I think I’ve rebalanced the two of them out much better. I’ll do a paste of the changes later to compare if people want…
Notable new differences outside of rebalances:
–Vaygr now has a new Mothership hull upgrade to put it in line with what Hiigaran can get after the changes.
—Requires the capital upgrade.
—Puts it from 40% bonus after the all upgrade, to 75% bonus. (Before it got 1.5 from the all upgrade)
—Cost 500. Time 30s.
//Before Vagyr MS was FAR weaker. Hiigaran got 100% more MS hp for 1250 RUs Hiigaran. Vagyr took 10,000 RUs to get 60% more. This gave Hiigaran a heavy advantage in very close 1v1 maps where MS fight in the center.
//Hiigaran upgrade also got heavily nerfed. Now it’s 1500 for 75% more hp and has double the research time.
–Various single upgrades for Hiigaran are improved to be the pre-nerf levels. (Fighters now get 40% speed from 1 upgrade, instead of 50% from their second. But I kept bombers at 50% because they simply need the extra speed more, and working off a percentage has fighters gaining even more)
—In Vaygr’s case, an additional upgrade has been added to bring them up to these extra levels, while Vaygr gains a lower amount from their ship-group levels, similar to the new MS upgrade.
—Full list that gets these: Bomber, Infiltrator
//Okay, so a few ships getting extra speed is inconsistent, which I said I was trying to fix, but I’ll note it in the descriptions when I do strings. :>

-HW1 races now have production facility upgrades, which replace some tech. (As noted above)
//These don’t work the same. Basically, there is a tradeoff.
//HW1 races have fewer production facilities. It costs a lot more to get fighters and other defenders out from multiple facilities since you need a Strike facility on each which costs more than research did.
//There’s some other nuances. Basically better in some ways, worse in others.
//None of them have prereq research. I thought it was important to be able to skip to what you want, since you mostly could in HW1.

–“Strikecraft Production Module” now unlocks intercepters, bombers, repair corvettes, and light corvettes.
—Cost is 700. Build time 105. No prerequisite research
//This puts it around the middle of what it takes to get either fighter or corvette up on HW2 races. Also, note light corv rebalance and that you need to build two of them to get one on MS and one on Carrier. It’s no longer one research to get both.
//Before it was a long crawl through tech to get to vettes, and the only choice before that was defenders. Now there’s more choice, and less staring at the research screen to instantly click the new research that comes up.
–“Frigate Production Module” now unlocks Support Frigates.
—Cost 800. Build time 120.
–“Capship Production Module” unlocks Destroyer if frigate ions are researched.
—Cost 2500. Build time 220.
//May have accidentally made this 3000. Oops.
//I always thought it was sort of funny that you could get Destroyers and HCs with Ions without researching Ions in HW1.

//Not sure about the build time. The math I basically did is…: 120+160+175 is the research time to get destroyers. But that is halved when you have 2 research ships. Cost was 2500, but now there is extra research. Destroyers are effectively more costly, since you need Ions.
//Yes, Carriers were another 250, but the way HW has changed with HW2, taking that long to get carriers just doesn’t work.
//These production facilities don’t require tech, just like how in HW1 you could completely skip corvettes to research frigates.
//Of course capitals required frigate research first, but I instead made them require ion tech. To me, that feels even more like HW1-y than HW1 did.

–Corvette Drive is no longer a requirement, and is now optional tech that increases speed by 30%
—Cost increased from 300 to 800. Time remains at 80s.
–Corvette Chasis is no longer a requirement, and is now an optionll tech that increases hull by 30%
—Cost increase to 1400. Time increased to 160s.
–Heavy Corvette chasis now just requires Strikecraft Production Module.
//This health increase is lower for other ships, because it’s more about the increase of number of hits taken than the %. 30% is still more than than double the health gained in most cases than the 50% HW2 races get.
//Also, I think it’s better to have them start out with higher base, and this upgrade is mixed in with gaining Heavy vettes.
–Salvage Corvettes now require a new tech, OverrideSystems.
—Cost is 600. Time 120.

–New research, CapitalTargetingSystems
—Cost 300. Time 160.
—Required for both Assault Frigates and Ion Cannon research, thus required for Destroyers and HCs too.
–IonCannon research is now required for all ships that have ion cannons (Destroyers and HCs)
–Capital Ship Drive Upgrade is now an upgrade that provides 25% more speed to Frigates. No longer unlocks any ships.
—Cost 1200. Build time 120.
–Capital Ship Chasis Upgrade is now an upgrade that provides 40% more health to Frigates. No longer unlocks any ships.
—Cost 2000. Build time 160.

-Capital Ships
–SuperCapitalShipDrive removed. HW1 cap ships will have no upgrades.
–SuperHeavyChasis renamed to SuperCapitalProduction
//Note earlier changes. Destroyers and HCs now require ion research.

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Reserved for later update notes

I know a lot of these changes sound crazy. Some ships got 5x the dps and 50% more health.
I actually think these changes are conservative and HW1 races may still be worse.
I’d actually hope for them to be slightly OP and more competitive so I can see what’s now OP about them to nerf or re-rework. If they’re still worse, it’s harder to tell since you can’t see them win and what’s now too strong about them.

But, at the same time, I tried to be very conservative and tested versus the AI a lot.
So yeah, it really wasn’t just lack of formations and the weird behavior that made HW1 races so bad. No, the stats on the ships were just terrible. I think they were just balanced for SP and… I’m kind of stumped, really.
For example: for 250 RUs Light Corvs had 620 hp and did 137DPS with terrible accuracy, nearly as bad as Laser Corvs.
While Laser Corvs did 700 DPS and had 800 total hp (1280 when upgraded, of which HW1 had no upgrade).
See? It wasn’t a formation problem. HW1 ships were just TERRIBLE.
I thought I was crazy giving things 3-6x dps and so on, but in testing it seems to work. Plus, if working formations/tactics were in the game, HW2 races would benefit from them and get better strike craft too! So it’s not like that suddenly makes HW1 ones better.

This is also not a replacement for tactics/formations. We still need that :<

As far as no intercepter or bomber adjustments:
I actually think bombers should be quite good, looking at the numbers. I think just no one tried to build them.
Intercepters, well, I didn’t know what to do with them. I made scouts almost as good as interceptors, so you may as well build those and not need tech. Sure I could have made them decent, but I want an actual legitimate reason to build them over light corvs and I can’t think of that reason. Before you built them simply because you didn’t have corvs researched yet, and HW1 tech required their research before you could research corvs. Now that’s not the case, and that was a bad reason to make them anyway!

Some issues I have noticed in testing this is that the missile destroyer is apparently available for both the Taiidan and the Kushan immediately from the start. The Taiidani flagship apparently was unable to construct a capital ship facility or frigate facility once the fighter facility was complete. Upon retiring the fighter facility, a frigate facility node appeared on the flagship where the resourcing drop off was located, which prevented collectors from dropping off. Removing that in turn barred the flagship from constructing any further modules of any kind. There are a few other bugs of a similar nature, I will continue testing. Overall, the changes are a good start.

Oops yeah. I had those available right away for testing and thought I changed them back.

I’m going to update it with a fix today and a few other small changes. (Noticed Scouts are slightly too strong. Were a bit too weak on my first passes)

And are you sure the subsystem is preventing the drop off and not just the usual collision bug from being too close to the field? In all the times I tested, they will drop off resources, clipping through the subsystem.
The resource hardpoint was seemingly the only play I could put the subsystems. Actually, I’ll see if I can attach to the weapon hardpoints without it crashing, that would be better…

And the production modules are supposed to all be constructable from the start. They replace the researching at a similar cost/time. The advantage is it keeps from being locked into slow research to get your stuff while HW2 races are already pumping out ships of all types. I didn’t think it’d be possible to really balance them decently without production modules.

Update is being pushed to the Workshop now.

Update 1

-Capital Production is actually 3000. 2500 was wrong.

-Fixed Kushan destroyer missing the Ion Cannon research requirement

-Fixed Taiidan Missile Destroyer being available with no requirement (had that for testing)

-Production facilities are now attached to gun hardpoints and are more easily targetted and separate from one another.
//They are arranged weird so you can see the back of them and see through them. Just poke out from the points.
//Yeah, this is not how I wish it was, but it’s better than before.

-Reduced scout damage from 7.4-9.6 to 6.4-8.6. Increased accuracy vs corvettes from 35% to 48%. Reduced gimble cone from 15 degrees to 8.
//The speed boost is kind of hilarious. Make sure you use it. Works best when used after a past to get out of fire and get looped around behind. These units are actually quite good when microd well now. Can sort of stall with them if you want to skip Strike Craft production all together

-Intercepters buffed
–Now an 8 round burst over 1.4s, every 2.5s. Was a 3 round burst every 2.1s
–Damage reduced from 21.7-22.3 to 7-10.
–Accuracy versus fighters increased from from 11% to 17%. From 26% to 38% vs corvettes.
//DPS from 3.682 to 4.622 (Accounting for accuracy. No longer has a 6% bonus to unarmored)
//Hiig intercepters are 6.87
//Basically gave them the HW1 gun and it works.
//Don’t think this makes them good, but makes it less of a grave mistake to build them at least!

I don’t actually see why Defenders are so strong, really. Perhaps it’s their range. Their dps is just 29. Accuracy is horrible, so really it’s 2.349 vs fighters, 6.09 versus those 400+ hp corvettes.
Their only big advantage is their tracking, turrets, and being 50% higher range than most.
I really think it’s because people sit idle teching while someone gets 40 defenders then go “wtf 40 defenders killed my 5 intercepters and 3 vettes how”. From what I’ve seen of actual good players playing, HW2 races get out a lot of intercepters that overwhelm and kill defenders easily.
I think they need a buff too, but I’m going to hold off and wait and see.
I do really want to give them corvette distinction so they’re easier to hit, but more hp, even though they’re classified as a “fighter”. That’s part of why I really dislike this whole type system that decides so many calculations.

The reason Defenders are so good is a combination of price being low, range being high and most importantly: Flight pattern. They use frontal sit-still-and-point-at-target, which means they get to do their max DPS at all times. A HUGE increase in actual damage compared to strikecraft that fly attack or bombing runs and the horrible HW1 RM Corvette AI. Also the reason Lance Fighters have such a high dps - they don’t really get to use that damage. For a shock try giving the lance fighters defender AI and watch them tear everything to shreds.

Aye, but I still think Defenders are rather overrated. They’re just the best of HW1s bad starting units.

If someone goes double fighter production and pumps out intercepters, they will beat any amount of defenders pumped out because they start producing sooner.
I’ve seen lots of HW1 rush out defenders and they get swarmed by rushed out intercepters.

It’s only when HW1 get a critical mass while intercepter/corv production was neglected in favor of teching are they so strong, as far as I can see.

I’d have to see a lot more games to really tell. Pretty sure the new corvs are a better choice most if not all of the time. If they’re not, that’d be even more telling.

And yeah, corv AI truely is horrible. Like the HW1 corvs won’t bank or anything to get more turreted guns on target. They want to fly like planes so badly.

Update 2

-Defense Fighter cooldown between bursts slowed from 2.5s to 4s.
//While their survivability was too low for their cost, tech requirement, and limited roll, they were also maybe too good at totally shutting down missiles.

-EMP shield damage adjusted from 5-35 EMP damage to 19-35. (originally 35) // Now you sometimes need an extra emp to disable something, instead of always 3.
–EMP cost increased back up from 750 to 1250 (originally 1500)
//The way EMP works is it damages shield. Each ship has a shield. Lowering shield to 0 disables them.
//Fighters and Corvs are generally 75. Frigs 110. Destroyers 1000.
//Before, EMP was always 35 damage. So 3 would always disable fighters or corvs, often a group at that.
// But shield can also be reduced under 0! This means it can take even longer than the usual 20 seconds to recover, if they live that long. I don’t know, I think EMP is sometimes this thing that’s so autowin when a good trio of them go off. If you miss, it’s not the hugest deal, you just lose 3 scouts. It’s cool to see big plays like that, but on the other hand it’s sometimes too much.
//I can’t really figure out how to better balance them where they’re still skillful, and high impact, but isn’t so crazy.
//Increasing all ships EMP regen by double would be good, but that requires editing every single ship file.

Removed all those unnecessary HOD files. Half a MB now. :ox:

You could improve the Corvette AI to make it behave sort of like HW1 (it’s fairly easy - lots of mods doing it already) so their DPS is a lot more consistent and easier to balance.

Well two things:
What I’ve seen, they just make them move like frigates. Wouldn’t Corvettes in claw pass over targets in HW1?
The other thing is they’ll like repeatedly give them a formation order, which someone puts them in a formation, but I think it also messes up their targetting and such?

It’s really something that only GBX can fix correctly, from what I’ve seen looking through the files.
And it’s nothing something that just needs to effect HW1 ships. Formations & Tactics should effect HW2 ships as well.

I did mean to look and see if I can change stances around a bit, but it looks like lots of these definitions are JSON and not fully featured Lua.

It makes them circle the target while pointing at them (It’s a modified frontal_strafe if I remember it right). It’s not 100% HW1 behavior, but it’s a lot better than the RM one.

In classic HW1 all formations except for sphere acted the same (ships stick to that formation and do attack runs, with fairly extreme sideslips to keep firing while they pass unless they are on evasive). Sphere was straight up “go to designated point to form a sphere, always point at target, always fire unless they ships are set to evasive”. That meant sphere had some pretty overpowered uses.
Evasive always broke the formations up into wing-pairs doing attack runs, regardless of formation.

All in all the HW1 formations would hurt the RM more than it’d help because they weren’t designed for roll-to-hit mechanics. If someone magically managed to port over the classic HW1 formations right now, there’d no reason to use anything but sphere at all times because the sphere downside (sitting still unless you’re using certain sphere exploits) doesn’t mean a thing in a roll-to-hit world.

Yeah, but as you say that’s not really how it worked.

What would be needed, is to hook things based on formation. While I see there is a function for SETTING a formation, and checking if ships are in a strike group, I don’t see one to get their current formation.

And those are things that should change HW2 strike craft behavior as well.

It’s really impossible to mod it as it should be. GBX has to.
I also have a big commercial project I need to get back working on, and I’m not going to spend all that time just to half fix GBXs game. :confused:

And no I disagree. Because GBX, having the source code and all, could very easily change unit statistics(used in the RNG) based on formation. Like they could increase ships dodge rates based on how spread out they are. In HW1, the different settings would spread ships out more. Aggressive packed them tighter, which made them get hit more (a projectile could actually hit more than 1 ship in HW1, even)

Anyway, it turns out lots of those duplicate HOD files are absolutely needed. Going to update and it’ll be 400+ MB again after I work on some other changes… Trying to get a certain something to work.
Sure wish it’d check the default path for HOD files instead of where the .ship file is!

I will look into unit behavior a little. At least for heavy vettes it makes sense for them to circle strafe.

I mean, yes, I already know how they work and how they can make ships stronger.
My problem is that it’s so half-assed.

Like in HW1 when you set to wall and defensive, wouldn’t they stay and wall and just get in range? But if they were aggressive and claw, they’d sweep past.

I really hate the idea the ship behavior being so static and defined once. HW1 let you really decide how they behave.
I’d like to be able to change their behavior based on their tactic and formation, but I’m just not seeing a way to.

Update 3

Not many changes here. Was going to have another big one but ran into problems. I tried to make it so grav wells are disabled by taking heavy damage or being reduced to low hp, but the Grav Well shutoff function, which is also supposed to trigger from toggling the ability again, seems to be broken. It’s not possible to turn off grav wells in vanilla. :confused:
It only stops when it runs out of power, so it should be fixable since there is obviously a way for it to turn off, butttt I’m just not seeing how.

-Fix for crashes. It’s now 400mb again. I had to readd the duplicate HOD files which use lots of space for nothing.

-Scouts rebuffed slightly
–Gimble increased from 8 to 12. (Originally 15)
//They were just almost never firing at 8* gimble, which seems weird to me as that’s a fairly large range and they are manuverable enough to get pointed on a target… but whatever.

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Well… I actually stumbled on something that makes the behavior A LOT closer to the aggressive x/claw/delta/wall/etc of HW1.
They spread out a bit after a pass, but still loosely keep that formation after multiple passes.

I need to test some more and see if there are some other things I can find that will get me closer before I go and change all the behaviors and get that in.

It’s annoying being so limited by what modders have to work with, though. :confused: I wish I could properly recode this with the source.

I like a lot of the changes I see here and I can see the reasoning behind a lot of of them. I do have to ask why on the “module” aspect being forced upon the HW1 ships?

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Hello. Is there any way you can upload this mod to Moddb or other external site except steam workshop?
I would higly apreciate it

I did figure a few people wouldn’t like this, but here is why in more detail:

HW2 races would generally get their ships out 2-3.5x faster (More than 2x for fighters and frigates, and more than 3x for corvettes caps ) and production modules are a large part of that.

HW1 races had the advantage of researching once, and being able to build from their MS and all carriers then.
But see, it was 900RU and 165 seconds just to start getting interceptors out. 365 for defenders.
60s for the research vessel, 35+67 for the fighter drive and chassis required JUST for intercepters.

Hiigaran would only spend spent 500RU(possibly x2) for fighter facility, and it only took 45 seconds to get out. 3x faster… And they got bombers while HW1 only got interceptors.

See, people have tried to say that defenders are OP, but any good HWRM player knows that they can get 8+ interceptor squadrons to the HW2 race’s mothership and killing their collectors by the time they are getting their first defender out. They actually didn’t even need to go double fighter, because just with single fighter they can get enough overwhelming force out before HW1 races could answer it.

For corvettes, it was bad too. Another 700 RU, and 200 seconds, just to get light corvs out that were good against nothing. Unlike HW2, they couldn’t skip fighters and go straight corvs, so HW2 races also got corvs out in half the time(though about the same cost, since research facility was required first)

Was it possible to keep the same system and adjust it?

Well, yeah. I could have made HW1 races START with a research ship for free. That would cut out 60 seconds, and 600RU. It may have been possible to make each research ship make times faster too, because all the research times are like 3-4x slower than HW2 are. And HW2 often requires buildings rather than research for things, making them effectively twice as fast than that 3-4x in many cases. (They have more tech, but most of it is optional stuff)

Then I could have decreased research times like 33% across the board.

The problem is…

Production Modules and HW2 tech tree is good design

Subsystems and production modules are the best thing HW2 added. Perhaps the only good thing it added, as it took out so much good stuff…

See, I think the HC/BC changes would actually make HW1 ones OP if not for the production module. Before, there was no way to counter the HW1 HC coming out.
One could almost argue that that would make them OP(If they weren’t so terrible in all other ways). It’s pretty unfair that you can destroy a shipyard, or just the capital ship production module on it, to stop a BC from coming out but you have to destroy the HW1 mothership to stop theirs.

Even on a lesser level, if they were made even one could argue that HW1 were then OP because you can’t kill a strike facility to stop corvs and defenders from coming out like how you can stop those missile vettes or trop frigates from coming out.

In the end, that made it both easier to balance, and more balanced, by making them more the same that way.

Obviously the downside is you actually spend more to produce ships from both the MS and Carrier. But time is more important than cost most of the time, and it would be really hard to balance out the time HW1 get things versus the benefit they got of them being producable anywhere just for research.

Also, this makes it so you can still build some ships even when research vessels are destroyed.

I… don’t see any reason to do that. Would only seem to benefit pirates. I’m not going to do extra work to benefits pirates. I can understand someone not thinking the game is not worth the money right now until GBX fix a bunch of stuff, but in that case one should just not play it.
Steam Workshop does autoupdates and stuff like that. It’s much better.

I tested it, I kinda like the rebalance, but I’m not sure if I like modules in hw, I mean we don’t have such thing in the classic, the idea is try to get as close as possible of the original. I know it is a tactical advantageadvantage, mostly because you can’t spy what is being done, but hw2 also have modules as tactical advantage, for example the grav well on cruisers and carriers, are so much easier to build and so harder to destroy

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Well it’s impossible to make HW1 races exactly like HW1 and still balanced with HW2, is part of the problem.
I mean, I actually made the HW1 races more like HW1 with the ship changes! It’s just tech really had to change for them to be balanced, imo.

I could certainly make how research works more balanced, but in the end I think it’d be pretty broken that there is no way to counter HCs coming out like how you can counter BCs coming out.

Anyway, still working on an update. Taking a while because so many things need one little change to them. Also trying to see if I can get the production subsystem build progress to show up. I’m simply not seeing any difference in the UI that would make it not show for HW1 races like it does for HW2… really stumped on that. -_-

Also, Inhibs are good and all but they’re also 1500 RU. And if you hit them hard with a burst, they get disabled for 10 seconds. You don’t even have to destroy them, you just have to hit them hard with an alpha strike of bombs and you can jump ships in.
I think there are tons of things even the best players of this 12 year old game don’t understand. Heh.
Plus, I buffed grav wells. They were much too easy to destroy compared to inhibs, yes.

It would be interesting if HW2 races were, say, limited to making 2 inhibs total. It really sucks to disable an inhib on one BC just for there to be another.