Homeworld Remastered Patch Balance Changes

Here’s the details of the patch changes in Homeworld Remastered. I’ve been helping Gearbox balance these patches since June 2015 with several other people here. Hope you guys like the patches!

1.0 to 1.3 Patch Balance Changes

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1.0 to 1.3 Patch Summary - February 25, 2015 to August 20th, 2015

There were only bug fixes and minor balance changes between the release of 1.0 and the 1.3 Patch.

All Races

Corvettes
Fixed the major corvette damage bug. This bug was causing laser and missile corvettes to deal far too much damage, and pulsar corvettes to deal a bit too much as well. These units were never properly balanced from the 1.0 to 1.3 patch.

Fixed a hyperspace issue, where ships would over jump their destination and hit an inhibitor in the distance.

Fixed a special ability timer issue, where abilities would deplete and recharge twice as fast as they were supposed to.

Vaygr

Assault Craft
Kamikaze damage -92% (to fix an exploit, and be in line with similar ships)

Missile Corvettes and Laser Corvettes
Fixed a bug where they were not affected by Gravity Well Generators.

Kushan and Taiidan

Repair Corvettes
Health -50%

Support Frigates
Speed +17%
Health -9%

Destroyers
Health +6%

Missile Destroyers
Health +6%

Note:
In addition to the changes listed above, many weapons were tweaked a bit. But these didn’t really do much to improve the balance problems in v1.0 to v1.3. After the 1.3 patch, Gearbox released several versions of the Official Gearbox Balance Mod from August to September 2015. This was later replaced by the 2.0 Patch.

Non-Balance Changes (for all patches)

Homeworld Remastered Collection Update Information is here.

2.0 Patch Balance Changes

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2.0 Patch Summary - June 7th, 2016

Kushan and Taiidan have seen major changes to better reflect their Homeworld 1 Classic (hw1c) performance and for better balance against Hiigaran and Vaygr. Hiigaran and Vaygr are largely the same as in Homeworld 2 Classic (hw2c), but with several improvements and many tweaks for better balance vs hw1 races.

Several features from hw1c have been brought back and added to all the races. Aggressive/Neutral/Evasive Stance’s to boost damage or speed. Formation’s have small damage/accuracy/speed modifiers for different ships. Balistic/simulation features, for example idle ships are generally a lot easier to hit than moving ships now. Useful scuttle blast damage for most ships. This all adds a lot of depth to the game.

Harvesting for all races has been balanced. Hiigaran has stayed the same, Vaygr has been brought up to par (was about 5+% lower), Kushan is now closer Hiig, and Taiidan has been brought up to par with Kushan.

Hiigaran and Vaygr

I’ll quote Scole on by far the biggest change: “Single tiered upgrades. Yes, there was a definite strategy between the original HW2 races that is lost but now there are two races without upgrades who must remain a viable play option. HW2 base stats for ships are higher than Classic and when upgraded ships usually fall close to where they would have been at the level 2 upgrade. For HW2 races this frees up Resources that can be used elsewhere. Vaygr, with their particularly expensive family-wide upgrades benefit from this.”

Fire Control Tower/Vaygr Command Corvette damage and accuracy boost lowered from 15% to 7%. Maximum damage/accuracy stack lowered from 40% to 20%. This was done to balance the late game vs hw1 races which don’t have these.

The new unit cap system counts fighters and corvettes by individual ship rather than by squad for consistency across all 4 races. This is a silent buff to ships with small squad sizes including: scouts, minelayers, and command corvettes.

Below I’ve listed anything notable that’s changed more than 5%. Health/Speed changes are for fully upgraded ships. The move to single tiered upgrades caused many ship’s health and speed to change by small percentages such as 1%-15%, and that’s just how things shook out.

Hyperspace Inhibitors
Cost 1500->1000 to balance vs hw1 races that can hyperspace from the start of the game

Carrier Fighter/Corvette/Frigate Facilities
Health +40% to be closer to the mothership facilities health. This was to balance vs hw1 races which do not have subsystems.

Capital Ship Facilities
Health +30% to make them stronger than fighter/corvette/frigate facilities and to balance vs hw1 races which do not have subsystems.

Resource Collectors
Health +25% to balance vs hw1 collectors which start with far more health. Interceptor damage vs collectors was also increased to keep the early game hw2c balance.

Fighters
The health of each hw2 fighter has gone up from 30 to 90, but the attack of their counters has also gone up to match. They have been balanced close to their prior performance. This was done to better balance the new features including formations and stances, and to improve battle outcome consistency. Balancing 30 hp one shot kill fighters became a fools errand with the new features.

Scouts
Cost: 350->300 was one of the final tweaks to balance vs hw1 races
now unit capped at 18 (6 squads). Was necessary since they take up way less space in the new unit cap system.
EMP duration 35->20 seconds. Idle ships now take way more damage, so EMP had to be adjusted.

Interceptors/Assault Craft
Cost: 500->450 was one of the final tweaks to balance vs hw1 races

Bombers
Health: up 50% more than interceptors are now, to improve survive-ability.
Got a sizable attack buff. They should now be a better capital ship counter.

Pulsar, Gunship, Missile and Laser Corvettes
Health +12%

Shipyards
Speed +25%

Destroyers
Health -18%
Health regen improved 28%
Attack +5% vs frigates
Reduced the size of the engine subsystems to minimize a hw2c issue where destroyers broadsiding each other would often absorb a lot of bullet damage with their engines.
Unit cap: 7->5 (was 5 in hw2c)

Battlecruisers
Speed +6%
Health -22%
Damage -28%
Unit cap: 3->2

Probes
Cost 150->70

Proximity Sensors
Cost 250->150

Hiigaran

Resource Collectors
Health Upgrade Costs 1200->800

Resource Controllers
Health Upgrade Costs 1500->400

Gun Platforms
Health Upgrade Costs 1300->700
Speed -20%
Health -7%

Ion Platforms
Health Upgrade Costs 1300->1200
Speed -20%
Health -7%

Scouts
Generally all ship’s base hull and speed increased, while fully upgraded stats stayed the same. This ship didn’t have upgrades, so their base stats received a bump.
Speed 460->512 (was 480 in hw2c)

Interceptors
Speed Upgrades Costs are still 800 (maybe the only upgrade that didn’t change in price)

Bombers
Speed Upgrade Costs 800->600

Gunship Corvettes
Speed Upgrade Costs 800->400
Health Upgrade Costs 1250->800
Attack buffed, this ship was under-powered.

Pulsar Corvettes
Speed Upgrade Costs 1050->600
Health Upgrade Costs 1150->1200
Attack balanced against Vaygr missile corvettes (corvettes had balance issues since release due to several bugs, and bug fixes)

Minelayers
Health 400->900 Before they were easy to snipe since they weren’t a squad of 3.

Torpedo Frigates
Speed Upgrade Costs 1250->600
Health Upgrade Costs 2200->1000
Attack lowered vs fighters.

Flak Frigates
Speed Upgrade Costs 1250->600
Health Upgrade Costs 2200->1000

Ion Frigates
Speed Upgrade Costs 1250->600
Health Upgrade Costs 2200->1000
Is now better able to shoot idle corvettes, like salvage corvettes.

Marines
Fixed a hw2c oversight where every ship in the game had 100% accuracy vs marine/infiltrator frigates. Now they are treated as a regular frigates for accuracy calculations, which is a silent buff.
Unit cap 5->6

Defense Field Frigates
Generally all ship’s base hull and speed increased, while fully upgraded stats stayed the same. This ship didn’t have upgrades, so their base stats received a bump.
Speed +9%
Health +11%
Unit cap 4->2. It was 2 in hw2c, and stacking 4 DFF can be quite overpowered.
The following changes incentivize more usage:
Cost 1250->1000
Build Speed 70->60 seconds
Ability Duration 20->32 seconds

Motherships
Speed Upgrade Costs 1250->600
Health Upgrade Costs 1250->1000
Speed -7%
Health -33% (+5% from hw2c)

Carriers
Speed Upgrade Costs 1500->600
Health Upgrade Costs 1750->1000
Health +9%

Shipyards
Speed Upgrade Costs 2000->600
Health Upgrade Costs 2250->1000
Health -34% (now about the same as hw2c)
Fixed a hw2c bug with their cloak module

Destroyers
Speed Upgrade Costs: 2500->600
Health Upgrade Costs: 2500->1500
Attack -30% vs resource collectors.

Battlecruisers
Speed Upgrade Costs: 2500->600
Health Upgrade Costs: 5000->1500

Vaygr

Utility Ships
Health Upgrade Costs 3600->1200

Resource Collectors
RU load per trip 200->208
Speed +1.4%
Now start with 7 collectors instead of 6 (Yes the Vaygr mothership is that bad at harvesting).

Platforms
Health Upgrade Costs 2600->1500

Gun and Missile Platforms
Speed -20%
Health -12%

Hyperspace Platforms
Speed +8%
Cost 750->375
Has a minor sensors distortion probe effect for itself only, to incentivize its use.

Fighter Unit Cap
In HWR Public it was 15 squads, but in hw2c it was 18 squads. Now its set to 108 individual fighters to target the hw2c balance. Build possibilities:
4 scout squads (3 per squad) + 14 interceptor squads (7 per squad)
16 interceptor squads (7 per squad)
18 bomber squads (6 per squad)
18 lance squads (5 per squad) + 3 interceptor squads (7 per squad)

Fighters
Speed Upgrade Costs 1600->1200

Scouts
Cost 350->300
Speed -7%
EMP research cost 1000->1500 To balance the reduction of fighter speed upgrade costs and scout costs.

Bombers
Vaygr bomber damage has been improved to be closer to Hiig (longstanding hw2c issue)

Lance Fighters
Attack buffed, was under-powered and very niche

Corvettes
Speed Upgrade Costs 2400->1000
Health Upgrade Costs 2700->1600

Missile Corvettes
Attack balanced against Hiigaran pulsar corvettes. (corvettes had balance issues since release due to several bugs, and bug fixes)

Laser Corvettes
Attack balanced close to hw2c performance vs frigs and capital ships. (corvettes had balance issues since release due to several bugs, and bug fixes)
Fixed a bug where they lose DPS when corvette speed was upgraded.

Minelayer Corvettes
Base Health 400->900
Upgraded Health 640->1,350
Before they were easy to snipe since they weren’t a squad of 3.

Command Corvettes
Ping ability added, doesn’t require any additional research
Health increased 40% to match minelayer change
Now flies around in battle instead of siting idle so they aren’t such easy targets.
Unit capped at 2. The new unit cap system is a silent buff to these, and too many command corvettes would have been quite unbalanced for the other races. Also now that battlecruisers are unit capped at 2, Hiigaran is unlikely to have more than 2 FCT’s in a battle.

Frigates
Speed Upgrade Costs 2500->1200
Health Upgrade Costs 4400->2000

Assault Frigates
Assault frigate research cost 650->500
Health -7%
Attack buffed, this ship was under-powered

Heavy Missile Frigates
Is now better able to shoot idle corvettes, like salvage corvettes.
Range +14% to prevent Hiig Ion frigates from kitting them.

Infiltrator Frigates
Fixed a hw2c oversight where every ship in the game had 100% accuracy vs marine/infiltrator frigates. Now they are treated as a regular frigates for accuracy calculations, which is a silent buff.
Generally all ship’s base hull and speed increased, while fully upgraded stats stayed the same. However due to the above, Hiig marine frigates and Vaygr Infiltrator frigates didn’t received any base speed/health changes. Since there’s only one teir of upgrades now, this means the fully upgraded Vaygr infiltrator frigate is a bit lower than before:
Speed -7%
Health -12%

Capital Ships
Speed Upgrade Costs: 8,500->1,500
Health Upgrade Costs: 10,000->3,000

Flagships
Speed -7%
Health -35% (+9% from hw2c)

Carriers
Cost 1700->1900
Health +29%
Bombers got buffed, so we wanted to make sure fragile Vaygr carriers wouldn’t go poof early game. Costs were notched up a bit since the health went up so much.

Shipyards
Health -26% (now about the same as hw2c)

Destroyers
See above, upgrades are now 14,000ru cheaper

Battlecruisers
Range now matches Hiig battlecruiser to prevent kitting
See above, upgrades are now 14,000ru cheaper

Kushan and Taiidan

I’ll quote Scole again here: “The [patch] contains edits to [hundreds of] files. The complexity of the interactions the changes have on the game would make itemizing every change lunacy so instead we will speak to some of the general changes… …It will not and can not be an exhaustive, comprehensive list. You will have to play to really feel it out.”

Generally speaking, Kushan and Taiidan ships perform a lot closer to hw1c while being better balanced against Hiigaran and Vaygr. Below I’ve noted some of the more important changes, and provided some ship role/performance information.

Research costs/times adjusted to allow a hw1 player to choose to start at either fighters, corvettes or frigates and to be better balanced vs hw2 races.

Fighters and corvettes have received big speed buffs, to match upgraded hw2 ships.

Resource Collectors
Built Time 60->50 seconds
Health -17%
Can now hyperspace

Resource Controllers
No longer requires any research.
Can now support 8 resource collectors, and is much closer to the performance of their hw2 equivalents.

Scouts
Cheap anti-fighter, not quite as strong as interceptors.

Interceptors
Balanced against hw2 interceptors when in formations. Tip: small formations like a Claw or X of about 5 ships, are going to perform better than lose ships not in a formation.

Defenders
Unit capped at 20

Bombers
Better at countering capital ships than before.
No longer require plasma bomb research in multiplayer.

Kushan Cloaked Fighters
Anti-fighter, and good vs utility ships
Unit capped at 20

Taiidan Defense Fighters
Still good at killing missiles, but not so overpowered vs Vaygr anymore.
Unit capped at 10

Repair Corvettes
Repair is much better than before.
No longer require any research like in hw1c.

Salvage Corvettes
Speed increased 150->255

Light Corvettes
Cheap anti fighter
Just require corvette drive research like in hw1c.

Multigun Corvettes
Better anti-fighter

Heavy Corvettes
Anti-corvette balanced against pulsar corvettes and missile corvettes. Also pretty good vs frigates and capital ships.

Minelayer Corvettes
Health increased like hw2 minelayers were

Support Frigate
Repair is much better than before, your going to want to use these.

Assault Frigates
Anti-corvette, not very good vs fighters unless they are trapped in a gravity well. Pretty good vs frigates too.
Health and speed changed closer to upgraded Hiig/Vaygr frigates:
Speed +47%
Health +72%

Ion Frigates
Health and speed changed closer to upgraded Hiig/Vaygr frigates:
Speed +27%
Health +53%
Attack: balanced against Hiig ion frigates

Kushan Drone Frigates
Shreds interceptors pretty fast, pretty good vs corvettes too.
Drone duration greatly increased.

Taiidan Field Frigate
Now equipped with a new field that’s always on.
Unit capped at 2, as 2 of these stacked stops 95+% of bullets. Like in hw1c, these don’t block ions or missiles.

Motherships
Hyperspace costs increased from 500base/1300max to 1000base/1500max. This better balances hw1’s ability to hyperspace from the very start of the game.

Carriers
Health +37%
No longer requires super heavy chassis research. This gives players more flexibility in choosing their next upgrade path, and provides better balance vs hw2 races.

Destroyers
Now requires Ion Cannon research due to their Ion based weaponry, like in hw1c.
Now requires Super Heavy Chassis (carriers and destroyers were swapped in the tech tree)
Built Time 178->160 seconds (between hw2 destroyers with and without improved manufacturing research)
Speed +41%
Health +10%
Health regen improved 42%
Unit capped at 5
Attack balanced against hw2 destroyers.

Missile Destroyers
Good vs fighters and corvettes now
Unit capped at 2

Heavy Cruisers
Now requires Ion Cannon research due to their Ion based weaponry, like in hw1c.
Cost 3600->4500
Built Time 293->250 seconds (between hw2 cruisers with and without improved manufacturing research)
Speed +27%
Health +20%
Health regen improved 20%
Unit capped at 2
Balanced to be a bit weaker than hw2 battlecruisers. However these are very strong when combined with repair units.

Gravity Wells
Research cost 700->500
Health +33%
Hyperspace inhibitor effect range increased to be closer to the hw2 hyperspace inhibitor range
Gravity well ability range reduced to more closely match the hw1c range.
Ability duration 90->45 seconds (Idle ships now take way more damage)
No recharge like in hw1c, however the ability can be turned on/off at any time.
Now always reduce enemy accuracy within their inner ring. Basically the opposite of a fire control tower for accuracy, due to the gravity distortion.

Note: For ship health I’ve provided the actual effective health, what’s displayed in game can be off by 20% sometimes due to armor damage modifiers.

Non-Balance Changes (for all patches)

Homeworld Remastered Collection Update Information is here.

2.1 Patch Balance Changes

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2.1 Patch Summary - June 10th, 2016

This was a minor patch, released a few days after the massive 2.0 Patch.

Hiigaran and Vaygr

Fixed an attack style issue for battlecruisers vs frigates.

Hiigaran

The following minor tweaks better balance Hiigaran upgrades against Vaygr upgrades.

Gun Platforms
Health Upgrade Costs 700->800

Ion Platforms
Health Upgrade Costs 1200->800

Pulsar Corvettes
Health Upgrade Costs 1200->1000

Kushan and Taiidan

Research Ship
Health +50% (to match time to kill a homeworld 2 research module with interceptors. Note: This change only affected Kushan by mistake)

Kushan Cloaked Fighters
Research Time -50%
Build Time 10->15 seconds

Taiidan Defense Fighters
Research Time -50%
Build Time 12->18 seconds
Speed +13% (to match interceptors)

Multigun Corvettes
Research Time -33%
Build Time 25->22 seconds

Heavy Corvettes
Research Time -45%
Build Time 25->22 seconds

2.205 Patch Changes

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2.205 Patch Summary - July 5th, 2016

Gearbox’s 2.205 Patch Preview resolved most of the 2.1 Patch Balance Issues. Unfortunately Gearbox halted updates for HWR prior to rolling this out as a full patch. The 2.205 Patch Preview can be opted into on Steam as a beta, or downloaded as part of the 2.3 Players Patch.

Hiigaran and Vaygr

Gunplats
Damage vs fighters +100% (A typo gave them less damage than intended)
Damage vs hw2 resource collectors -43%
Accuracy vs frigates and capital-ships 40%->80%

Interceptors/Assault Craft
Damage vs corvettes -31%
Damage vs frigs and capital-ships -60%
Damage vs subsystems +40%

Bombers
Accuracy vs corvettes 80%->20%
Damage vs frigates +40%

Destroyers
Health +6%
Normal Unit Caps 5->6

Battlecruisers
Health +13%

Platform Modules on carriers
Health +25%

Fighter, Corvette, and Frigate Modules on carriers
Health -11%

Motherships/Carriers/Shipyards/Resource Controllers
Damage vs hw2 resource collectors -45%

Hiigaran

Ion Platforms
Damage vs idle fighters/probes increased a lot

Gunship Corvettes
Damage vs fighters +13%

Pulsar Corvettes
Damage vs fighters/probes increased 100%

Torpedo Frigates
Damage vs hw2 resource collectors increased 30% (only helps vs upgraded hw2 collectors)
Damage vs fighters/probes increased 100%

Flak Frigates
Damage vs hw1 fighters increased 64% (results in a decent buff)

Battlecruisers
Range +3%
Fixed an issue where the hiigaran battlecruiser would sometimes sit pointed 10 degrees up or down vs a target on the same vertical level - causing the nose of the ship to block one ion turret from attacking.

Motherships
Speed Upgrade Cost 600->400
Health Upgrade Cost 1000->800

Carriers
Speed Upgrade Cost 600->400
Health Upgrade Cost 1000->800

Shipyards
Build Time 85->75 seconds (was 75 in hw2c)
Speed Upgrade Cost 600->400
Health Upgrade Cost 1000->800
Health Upgrade Research Time -50%

Vaygr

Re-balanced the Vaygr unit caps, to allow for fair transferring between players of different races. Interceptors/Bombers now count as 5 supply, and Missle/Laser Corvettes count now as 3 supply. Unit caps have been updated appropriately.

Missile Corvettes
Damage vs fighters -55% (they now perform closer to hw2c)
Fixed a bug where they would deal zero damage to probes

Laser Corvettes
Fixed a bug with the attack script where laser corvettes would start doing evasive maneuvers and rarely attacking. This bug fix makes laser corvettes much more effective.

Assault Frigates
Cost 500->650 (was 650 in hw2c)
Research Time +12% (to same as hw2c)
Damage vs Hiig/Vaygr fighters -50% (results in a small nerf)
Damage vs hw1 fighters +400% (results in a decent buff)

Battlecruisers
Trinity Cannon Range +1%
Damage vs capital-ships -6% (with no micro, makes 1 hiigaran cruiser vs 1 vaygr cruiser consistently come out even like in hw2c. With micro, vaygr can slightly out-range hiigaran and win.)

Carriers
Cost 1900->2100

Capital Ship Health Upgrade
Cost 3000->4000 (to balance vs Hiig)
Research Time +5%

Capital Ship Speed Upgrade
Cost 1500->2000 (to balance vs Hiig)
Research Time +33%

Kushan and Taiidan

Scouts
Damage vs fighters -50% (A typo gave them twice their intended damage, causing major balance issues)
Damage vs corvettes -31%
Damage vs frigates and capital-ships -50%

Interceptors
Damage vs corvettes -31%
Damage vs frigates and capital-ships -50%
Damage vs subsystems +40%

Bombers
Accuracy vs corvettes 80%->20%
Damage vs frigates +40%

Defenders
Speed +53%

Corvettes
Now move around a little more in combat.

Light Corvettes
Damage vs fighters +20%

Multi-Gun Corvettes
Damage vs fighters +38%

Heavy Corvettes
Cost 315->285
Damage vs hw2 corvettes -9%

Assault Frigates
Capital Ship Chassis Research Time down 113->85 (allows hw1 to get assault frigates faster)
Damage vs corvettes -50%
Damage vs hw2 resource collectors -25%

Ion Frigates
Ion Cannon Research Time up 35->64 (same timing, considering the capital ship chassis research buff)
Damage vs frigates -24% (they still beat hw2 ion frigates with 10% health left. This was a big oversight in balance testing the 2.0 patch.)

Motherships
Damage vs fighters +25%
Can now target any ship (previously couldn’t target some ships)

Carriers
Damage vs fighters +25%
Damage vs hw2 resource collectors -45%
Can now target any ship (previously couldn’t target some ships)

Destroyers
Cost 1800->2500 (to balance vs hw2 destroyer ship and upgrade costs)
Health +7%
Normal Unit Caps 5->6

Gravity Wells
Now uses frigate armour (this is generally a health buff)
Research Time down 71->35 (to allow hw1 to get hyperspace inhibitors faster)
Ability Duration 45->30 seconds
Ability Range -20%

Cloak Generators
Speed +45%

Bug Fixes

Fixed Hiigaran Mothership visual errors, mainly the badge being cut off.
Fixed the Turanic Carrier Engine missing icon.

2.3 Players Patch Changes

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2.3 Players Patch Summary

The community created Homeworld Remastered 2.3 Players Patch resolves many bugs, exploits, and balance issues from the 2.1 Patch. It includes the changes from Gearbox’s unfinished 2.205 Patch Preview, plus many additional improvements. It enhances singleplayer and multiplayer while respecting the look, sound, and feel of Relic’s classics. Notably it fixes the 666 Formation Bug, the Cross Race Docking Bug, and is authored by the players who helped Gearbox balance Homeworld Remastered. It also features additional gameplay options including a campaign difficulty adjuster, UI/camera adjusters, dual command mode, observer mode, vast unit caps, and much more.

Gearbox’s last patch was in 2016, so this is being released by the community for the players and fans. Credits: Gearbox, Cloaked, Fear, Trebic, NoOne, Echo, Stuart, QuadS, Kadeshi, and all the other contributors, testers, and players providing feedback. A full change list is here.

Subscribe on Steam

Download for GOG

17 Likes

Maybe I’m remembering the game wrong, but I am pretty sure Gravity Generators never recharged in HW1C. At least, every time I used them, they never recharged. EDIT: Completely misread the post. Sorry! :confused:

Thanks for the post, was quite useful though. Are the things that “no longer require research” just for MP or do they affect the campaign? I hope that they don’t affect campaign…

1 Like

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4a53qqlAgPOWVdzQ1lfMlFVLTQ/view

4 Likes

[quote=“SuperSajuuk, post:2, topic:1501771”]

[quote=“Cloaked, post:1, topic:1501771”]
No recharge like in hw1c, however the ability can be turned on/off at any time.[/quote]
Maybe I’m remembering the game wrong, but I am pretty sure Gravity Generators never recharged in HW1C. At least, every time I used them, they never recharged.[/quote]
Correct we’re in agreement, I think you just read that line wrong.

Regarding the campaign balance, 99.9% of these balance changes also affect the campaign. However, there’s a few tweaks between SP and MP now. For example (if I recall correctly), mother-ships have more health in SP than MP. Additionally there may be a few SP exceptions for things like hw1 bomber research - but I can’t confirm as I was mainly testing MP balance.

Yeah, read it back and realised I was misreading the post. Don’t know how I managed to do that lol.

As for balance in SP, no worries. I’m sure the devs will be able to clear up if changes affect SP, which I hope they don’t, since SP follows a different line than MP (like in SP, the Corvette Drive gives repair corvs, but in MP it gives salvettes (at least in classic they did)). But we’ll see.

Some of the kushan/taiidan research changes were actually to make HWR like hw1c, others were for balance. HWR’s research tree was already different than hw1c in several ways. Its probably closer now than it was before.

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Does this mean the basic or upgraded health of destroyers and bcs is reduced ?

Edit: Never mind, I found the answer myself :smiley:

Health/Speed changes are for fully upgraded ships.

1 Like

Wow, I was really afraid that the game was lost. So happy I was wrong. Thank you Gearbox you got me back with a fervor. I mean look at those changes much wow, much yay, much love. Awesome

2 Likes

Got a question regarding the reactive scaling of enemy ships in HW1’s campaign: was this scaled back somewhat to reduce the difficulty of missions where over-reactive scaling spawned far too many ships, or is it still the same as before? As it’s related to balance, I’m asking here, but feel free to point me somewhere if it’s not relevant here :wink:

EDIT: Tagging @bitvenom as he is most likely to know :wink:

Actually, I think @thisquietreverie is your man, he was responsible for the rebalance work from a design perspective…

2 Likes

I wonder if people are going to be running tournaments again now or something, eh?

Would be interesting to see.

Also, times on upgrades aren’t noted here. I’m guessing they weren’t really changed if at all, just the costs lowered? That would seem the right way to go for me, but it’s not noted anywhere.

Hw2 races now have one upgrade tier instead of two, so ya upgrade times have definitely changed. I was going to include those but the post was already getting quite long and for the most part costs are the driving factors. Upgrades aside, regular hw2 research tech cost/times haven’t changed unless I’ve noted them above (I think just two tweaks).

Also, if any modders want to dive into the guts of the variables that drive balance, I built a stats tool to do so. I don’t recommend non-modders view this, as there’s a ton of confusing information that doesn’t make sense, or is misleading unless you’ve modded the game. Among the hundreds of variables included in the tool are research times, but even those can be confusing.

I would have figured the time would be more in between or them together. Most times look inconsequentially low.

I imagine you spend little time waiting for research and can just immediately get what you want as you need it since total research time for everything combined has been cut like 40-60% or so.

The low cost and single tiering is good, for balance sake between HW1 and HW2 races and just because the 2 tiers in HW2 was plain unnecessary filler, but doesn’t seem like one would need to put much thought into timings and the order you research things when research goes by that fast. Might be balanced, but seems like it could be more shallow like that.

Total base research time including all research and upgrades:
Hiig: down 36% (August: 3560seconds, 2.0 Patch: 2280seconds)
Vay: down 18% (August: 2800seconds, 2.0 Patch: 2295seconds)

With the move from two to one upgrade tiers, its to be expected that upgrade times would go down a lot. Hiig obviously had more upgrades than vaygr too, and Kushan and Taiidan still have no upgrades - so not easy to balance!

2 Likes

Thanks! I’ll wait for his response :slight_smile:

Wow! Great work everyone!

Does the speed boost from evasive behaviour affect travel speed or just during combat? It might seem a bit wield to have units move across the map faster by using a behaviour that you have no intention of using in actual combat.

Evasive boosts a ships speed/acceleration both in and out of combat. Some fighters/corvs may slow down when firing to spend more time on target however.

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In HW1c evasive was often used as a “flee” tactic, which allowed strike craft to quickly escape an engagement while being harder to hit, or to stay ahead of strike craft pursuing them. With this sort of thought process the speed boost makes sense outside of combat as well.

Just imagine power from the weapons being shifted to the engines to boost their speed like in Freescpace for example :wink:

No I can imagine that. I just don’t know why they wouldn’t always be going at max speed when out of combat. It’s not like the guns are being powered while they travel from point A to point B.

Anyways, it doesn’t matter except everyone needs to remember to always have them on evasive so they get to their destination faster than someone who doesn’t use evasive, then switch them to the behavior you want just before contact. A bit of unnecessary busywork built into the model, but oh well.