Hot lead test results

Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Nisha the Lawbringer
#10

Because you tested both against EOS, in atmosphere :wink:

Seriously though, you claim that hot lead gets DOTs in a Vacuum ?

I will test that out. I never saw any myself, but I never really paid attention. You do get the initial damage regardless, but it’s rather small.

Though it’s possible that the initial damage crits with tombstone, and with your build, it’s gonna be at least quadrupled due to your multiple crit boosts (then doubled on flesh targets), so the damage may be substantial… But not worth 5 points in a skill ( assuming I’m right on DoTs in a vacuum of course)

#11

A good test would be against Iwajira: he’s big, weak to fire and in a Vacuum.

Maybe testing with a slightly under leveled LC would yield times that are easier to compare.

Edit: or rather, with an at-level one, but without kill skills so that the results are consistent.

I also need to test one thing, since your experience with hot lead is with the LC: is the moneyshot damage included to calculate hot lead ? If so, it may disproportionately help hot lead, and provide false figures for our tests. (And at the same time, is the splash from the Omni-canon added too ?)

Remember: I’m not trying to figure out what it the best choice in a given circumstance. I’m trying to figure out how hot lead works.

#12

I understand your not trying to figure out the best choice in a circumstance. But that 25% fire damage is just like having 25% extra gun damage, but as fire damage, so against fleshy targets it does even more than that, and yes less against armored targets etc. But its still worth the 5 Points because thats what gets you to 25%, in addition to having higher DoT damage, also did you know that as long as you have tombstone active each line of the dot damage can crit? with 30 stacks and a kill skill my base DoT damage per tick is over 100k non-crit… You have a lot more testing to do :smile:

The dot damage i was testing btw OUTSIDE was against the badass fire kraggen in serenity’s waste near where you go fight Deadlift. Kill a little guy and shoot the fire kraggen, each dot tick crits, and you will see the dot damage, trust me, i just went and confirmed what i already knew this morning before posting, I dont like to come in here saying i know things without knowing 100% :wink:

#13

So that would be 2 new things: a fire DOT in a vacuum, AND a DOT that crits…

#14

With tombstone active, yes, its awesome.

The DoT damage seems to be less than normal against the kraggens though probably because they’re so resistant.

But I really didn’t test for too long, i just verified a couple things to make sure before posting.

#15

Lower damage is normal. The damage is either cut in more than half, or doubled. Almost Nothing has normal resistance to fire.

I know that the initial fire damage (which I’ll call the spark to make this conversation easier) can crit like anything else with tombstone. But I’ve never seen any proper DOT crit. Since the spark is only slightly more damage than a tick, it could be visually misleading, especially when using a Two-fer gun (which might make each spark appear separately) it might explain both DOTs in vacuum and DOTs that crit without too much hassle.

I will have to be pretty careful when testing.

I think I’ll test on Kragons: they never have Shields, have a big crit spot and are fairly slow.

I don’t have the means to record though, so if I do see some DoTs in a vacuum, I will need assistance in providing evidence.

[Build] Jakobs Nisha - Level 70 with Eclipse/Eos Video
#16

if you are going for a jakobs+tombstone build hot lead is the best way to go over than crack shot imo
sucks to know that it under-perform on vacuum and the damage is not based on critical
but good to know the tick damage is based overall with all the bonuses to gun damage specially a jakobs gun
heck even 3-4/5 it performs well

#17

My wife was on my computer earlier so i was playing on the Xbox so i could get a quick picture for your entertainment :smile:

This is in Regolith Range, against an Ultimate Badass Scav, using a Dastardly Luck Cannon with NO Hell’s, so one shot, would be ONE shot and leave out any confusion for myself, and the picture. If your target dies to the initial gunshot, you will never see fire damage, If the initial shot does not kill the enemy but it crit, you will then see the initial “spark” as you so called it, If the spark does not then kill the enemy the DoT will then afflict the target until it wears off or until the target dies. Isn’t that spray of purple crits just lovely to see? :smile:

Like i was saying, In the firing range, these DoT Ticks (non crit) against the fleshy target do like 101-103k with the Dastardly with only my reload skill and mag 6. As you can see with my build and 30 stacks and all that wonderful stuff, the DoT ticks are critting for 602k, and that was ONE bullet fired mind you, in a vacuum. the “spark” does anywhere from 800k-1000k in damage with the dastardly. Hot Lead is the absolute best evar. :wink:

But of course this is all information I already knew, from all my extensive testing, which is why I just could not wrap my head around why anyone would EVER in any situation choose Crack Shot over Hot Lead if using Non-Elemental guns. Also yet another reason the Blue Crapshooter is so devastating when mixed with Tombstone + Hot Lead. Moar Crits from Hot Lead is Moar Bettar :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
#18

What I see from this picture are 4 identical damage values. And during my testing, I was only getting identical values from the spark (same value every time). The DoTs were random with every single tick. So my guess is those are the 4 sparks from 4 different bullets. (or you got VERY VERY VERY lucky with RNG)
And there is nothing in the picture that can inform me that those are indeed DoT ticks and not sparks… :frowning:
Evidence, but not CONCLUSIVE evidence.

While the fact that the spark itself will appear in Vacuum or that it can crit with Tombstone was never put in question, I can’t accept this picture as PROOF that DoTs from Hot lead will proc in a Vacuum, sorry.

I know I sound harsh, but i’m trying to steer this away from confirmation bias as much as possible, So in essence, i’m trying as hard as I can to DISPROVE your claim. When I have failed, we’ll know it’s the truth. That’s the core of any scientific experimentation worth a damn.

I’d really really like to see a video of a burn DoT in Action in a Vacuum.
Something that CLEARLY and unequivocally isn’t damage from another source.

And to anyone who wish to help, please pick another gun besides the Luck Canon or the Omni-canon, as I have not run any tests on the moneyshot or splash’s effect on Hot lead’s damage. A careful Cartesian approach requires that we remove all non-essential variables. (it will also make the “if they don’t die” part more likely to happen :stuck_out_tongue: )

Please understand that i’m not trying to be dismissive of your efforts, I just want to do this properly, with a methodology that can’t be put into question.

One thing at a time: When we have proof that DoT from Hot lead can proc in a vacuum, we’ll move to seeing if it can crit. Right now, no tombstone, no nothing… just (conclusive) evidence of Hot lead procing a DoT in a Vacuum.

#19

Indeed.

In atmosphere, Hot lead is CLEARLY superior to Crack shot on almost every account, no doubt in my mind now.
When we have a definitive conclusion on what it can do in a Vacuum, I may be able to reach a GLOBAL conclusion about it.

#20

I’m back on my computer now, i’ll make a video real quick.

1 Like
#21

Ok here is the Video, I made it super short so I wouldn’t have to take 30 minutes to upload it to YouTube, lol.

Using a Dastardly Iron. Screenshot Below of the gun. So there aren’t any money shot proc’s.

Here is a picture of the skill tree used. Please note, no Hell’s.

Here are the damages that affected the mob from ONE bullet being fired from this gun. Note, 9 bullets in mag, to 8 after the single shot. Also make note the mob still had some shield at the time of firing. The mob was frozen from a nearby Cryo Barrel exploding. Was very nice because it allowed me to aim easily at just him while he was standing perfectly still lol. Also I am aware that the Short Fused damage & actual guns damage is bumped up because he was frozen. But were not testing that here so who cares lol.

Initial Gun Bullet: 1131k
Short Fused: 408k
Hot Lead Spark: 538k
Hot Lead DoT: 495k
Hot Lead DoT: 494k
Hot Lead DoT: 494k
Hot Lead DoT: 494k
Mob then died so DoT damage stopped.

Don’t forget you can adjust the play speed where you change it to 1080p. 1/4 speed is best to see it easier.



DoTs happen from Hot Lead in a Vacuum, and they can crit. Please note all of the purple “Critical Hit” text.

So there is no debate as to how the Cryo frozen enemy affected the “spark” or the DoT damage. I can assure you that kind of damage is very normal. Here is a video of a gimpy’er mob, so it dies really quick, but you get the idea, he clearly wasn’t frozen. Again, it was just one bullet, you can clearly see that in the video.



Initial Gun Bullet: 572k
Short Fused: 40,370 (no crit this time)
Hot Lead Spark: 568k
Hot Lead DoT: 355k
Hot Lead DoT: 260k
Mob then died so DoT damage stopped.

1 Like
#22

Doesn’t get much clearer than that. Hot lead is one hell of a skill !

Indeed, this is not what we’re testing here, so it’s irrelevant.

I can’t tell: did ALL of the DoTs crit ?
because they all have roughly the same damage

The maths behind it are gonna be tricky

Didn’t even know you could do that, thanks for the trick :stuck_out_tongue:

…

I can call that evidence enough.

The ONLY things I wish (and this is nitpicking) would have been to have numbers without all the rest of the skills and the gear, and an example where we get to witness a bit more of the DoT (where they don,t die right off :stuck_out_tongue: )

All in all, good work Charrisx :thumbsup:

#23

Yes they all crit, that’s why there’s like a massive spray of purple.

Thanks :smile:

I’ll leave this one up to you, I was just trying to make sure I proved that they work in a vacuum and they crit. :wink:

And I must say, yes, yes it is!

#24

So just to be clear on this. What do you think now? :smile:

#25

I already changed the rating in my skill guide. Hot lead is MUCH better than previously thought.

No reason to pick Crack Shot over it in a Jakobs build.

1 Like
#26

All I wanted to hear, thank you :smile:

#27

Its probably safe to say that crit dmg boosts are likely to affect the crit dmg of the dots, so you may want to re-word it on your guide that with tombstone the dots can crit and they are affected by the crit boosts you have.

Also you can verify this for yourself, what i noticed when i was making the videos, the DoT’s either would ALL crit, if my 66% tombstone came into effect. Or they would all NOT crit. I leave that verification up to you, but that is what i noticed. :smile:

#28

Not now: I still need to test things. These new (for me) findings raise as many questions as they answered.

Are there other sources of DoTs that can crit ?
Or is Hot Lead special ?

Looks to me like Hot lead acts like a localized incendiary grenade: It’s not a “real” DoT (like the chances on a gun) As far as I know, normal DoTs can’t crit, but those grenade ticks can (like Cryos, clouds, teslas, etc…), so it may be how this works too.

#29

I have no idea honestly, I never tested that nor bothered to notice, I would say probably not, but eh, who knows. lol, Sorry for all the extra testing your stuck with now :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like