charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#21
Ok here is the Video, I made it super short so I wouldn’t have to take 30 minutes to upload it to YouTube, lol.
Using a Dastardly Iron. Screenshot Below of the gun. So there aren’t any money shot proc’s.
Here is a picture of the skill tree used. Please note, no Hell’s.
Here are the damages that affected the mob from ONE bullet being fired from this gun. Note, 9 bullets in mag, to 8 after the single shot. Also make note the mob still had some shield at the time of firing. The mob was frozen from a nearby Cryo Barrel exploding. Was very nice because it allowed me to aim easily at just him while he was standing perfectly still lol. Also I am aware that the Short Fused damage & actual guns damage is bumped up because he was frozen. But were not testing that here so who cares lol.
Initial Gun Bullet: 1131k
Short Fused: 408k
Hot Lead Spark: 538k
Hot Lead DoT: 495k
Hot Lead DoT: 494k
Hot Lead DoT: 494k
Hot Lead DoT: 494k
Mob then died so DoT damage stopped.
Don’t forget you can adjust the play speed where you change it to 1080p. 1/4 speed is best to see it easier.
DoTs happen from Hot Lead in a Vacuum, and they can crit. Please note all of the purple “Critical Hit” text.
So there is no debate as to how the Cryo frozen enemy affected the “spark” or the DoT damage. I can assure you that kind of damage is very normal. Here is a video of a gimpy’er mob, so it dies really quick, but you get the idea, he clearly wasn’t frozen. Again, it was just one bullet, you can clearly see that in the video.
Initial Gun Bullet: 572k
Short Fused: 40,370 (no crit this time)
Hot Lead Spark: 568k
Hot Lead DoT: 355k
Hot Lead DoT: 260k
Mob then died so DoT damage stopped.
Doesn’t get much clearer than that. Hot lead is one hell of a skill !
Indeed, this is not what we’re testing here, so it’s irrelevant.
I can’t tell: did ALL of the DoTs crit ?
because they all have roughly the same damage
The maths behind it are gonna be tricky
Didn’t even know you could do that, thanks for the trick
…
I can call that evidence enough.
The ONLY things I wish (and this is nitpicking) would have been to have numbers without all the rest of the skills and the gear, and an example where we get to witness a bit more of the DoT (where they don,t die right off )
All in all, good work Charrisx
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#23
Yes they all crit, that’s why there’s like a massive spray of purple.
Thanks
I’ll leave this one up to you, I was just trying to make sure I proved that they work in a vacuum and they crit.
And I must say, yes, yes it is!
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#24
So just to be clear on this. What do you think now?
I already changed the rating in my skill guide. Hot lead is MUCH better than previously thought.
No reason to pick Crack Shot over it in a Jakobs build.
1 Like
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#26
All I wanted to hear, thank you
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#27
Its probably safe to say that crit dmg boosts are likely to affect the crit dmg of the dots, so you may want to re-word it on your guide that with tombstone the dots can crit and they are affected by the crit boosts you have.
Also you can verify this for yourself, what i noticed when i was making the videos, the DoT’s either would ALL crit, if my 66% tombstone came into effect. Or they would all NOT crit. I leave that verification up to you, but that is what i noticed.
Not now: I still need to test things. These new (for me) findings raise as many questions as they answered.
Are there other sources of DoTs that can crit ?
Or is Hot Lead special ?
Looks to me like Hot lead acts like a localized incendiary grenade: It’s not a “real” DoT (like the chances on a gun) As far as I know, normal DoTs can’t crit, but those grenade ticks can (like Cryos, clouds, teslas, etc…), so it may be how this works too.
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#29
I have no idea honestly, I never tested that nor bothered to notice, I would say probably not, but eh, who knows. lol, Sorry for all the extra testing your stuck with now
How often can you get the DoT? I just went testing and got about … 30 crits ?
Not a single one of them got more than the spark.
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#31
Uhm honestly I have no idea. I wasn’t really paying much attention to that.
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#32
Well I found the best method of testing this if your interested.
I went to normal and bought the first Jakobs revolver from a machine i could find.
Then i went to TVHM Vorago Solitude - The monster hunter quest. Just ran over to the first one on the task with my shiny new revolver and got a kill. And just shoot them as they spawn. Unlimited outside test subjects. Sadly with shields.
I can do some testing if you want. But I know your working on this. What i noticed after 5 minutes was this.
This is not the same kind of DoT you get in an atmosphere. You never get all the ticks of the DoT, Not even close.
I was seeing mostly the spark damage + 1 DoT tick or spark damage + 1 DoT tick and a resist. I saw up to 7 DoT procs off one shot, several 3-6 DoT ticks as well. Its something i guess that should be recorded, get a crit, record just spark, or +1 dot, +2, +3 lines of damage etc.
On the bright side, with my Dastardly Luck Cannon, I saw DoT over 1 million per tick in a vacuum
Explains why Hot Lead is so incredibly deadly in an atmosphere.
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#33
Ok so I took a little time in Vorago Solitude just to get an idea of the RNG of the DoT procs for Hot Lead in a vacuum. I stripped down in gear and used a crappy 2000 dmg gun in TVHM killing the wraiths in the monster hunter mission. Here are the results, I am getting tired so I stopped after like 400 crits. Also I was very careful not to include any I was unsure about. I shot the gun and if it crit I paused the game so I could easily count the individual fire damages. I also thought it important to record the ones where I saw a resist after the spark, there were very few resists at the end of a long string of DoT damages.
This was definitely the absolute best place to test this, targets that don’t move for 5 seconds after spawning, easy crits from tombstone etc, I just aim at their chest and fire as they spawn. Then kill them and do it again on a fresh spawn. Keep in mind they do have a shield, and that may affect the chance to DoT them.
Sorry if these numbers don’t help you, I will only ask you change one thing while your testing, its quite silly that your testing hot lead and yet only have 2 points in the skill, maybe that’s part of your problem in getting the DoT, max it 5/5 and maybe that will help, also I would go where I was as its easier to do the testing you need to do. I can help further as needed but you’ll have to trust my judgement and competence for once as its really not fair as many times as I have had to prove myself that was I was saying is true and I still am treated like I don’t know what I’m talking about just because I haven’t been hanging around the forums as long as some others. I would hope by now you can see I am more than capable of testing and figuring things out.
[quote=“charrisx, post:33, topic:350472”] I will only ask you change one thing while your testing, its quite silly that your testing hot lead and yet only have 2 points in the skill,
[/quote]
I was testing with only 2 points at the shooting range. Because 10% is much easier to figure out in my head than 25%. I put 5 points in it as soon as I was done figuring out the numbers for damage.
All my testing in vacuum were with 5 points
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#35
Oh cool, were you able to get the same results as me with seeing the DoT’s appear?
Just to be clear buddy. It’s not about how long you’ve been hanging around the forum.
It’s about ME trusting people… individually.
When @Sljm, @Derch, @BookEmDano or @Exotek (for example) claims something to be true or false, I usually start out believing them, because I have a lot of experience with their claims, I know their track record and I know how they test things… Because I’ve known them for a bit.
BUT
I will still require confirmation for any claim they make before I start claiming the same: either someone else confirms that they get the same results, or a clearly doccumented experiment. Otherwise I’ll simply say “according to (name), X is true” instead of just “X is true”
When they claim something, they usually provide proof (not just evidence) without having to be asked. Standard procedure here, and a good basis for objective discussion. At some point, old timers here just stopped asking for proofs because people were simply providing them without us having to ask.
In short: I’m not asking you for proofs because I don’t trust you: I’m asking for proofs from EVERYONE.
The old timers here just know, so I don’t HAVE TO ask
The only thing I fully trust is evidence.
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#38
I was killing the wraiths last night for my test results remember.
I have a very good idea why you cant see the DoT’s. I truly doubt its the fact i always use a Jakobs gun. I am getting out my Xbox 360, If i remember right your on the PS3? Possibly this is a stupid old gen console thing again.
Nope works just fine on the Xbox 360 w/ Borderlands TPS (i went to Vorago Solitude again). Also tested it with a Vlad and Dahl, works just fine with those as well. So I honestly have no idea what it is I’m doing that your not
I get very consistent results every time I crit I see the spark, and very often 2-3 dots or more with it.
I can now confirm it works just fine on PC, Xbox One and Xbox 360. I also have read several places on the internet on other forums/sites like reddit and steam forums of people seeing that Hot Lead produces DoT’s in a vacuum and they crit.
Maybe it would be nice if a couple other people could spend a few minutes just verifying that they also are seeing Hot Lead DoT’s in a vacuum please. It would be nice if others could possibly help confirm what I already know to be true.
Maybe it was due to @charrisx tests in normal mode and @Chuck80 tests in UVHM.
charrisx
(If you want it dead, you want a Jakobs.)
#40
Nah, I tested in TVHM last night, but my videos are from UVHM. Also my tests this morning were on UVHM on the Xbox 360. So it works just the same on all difficulties.
Why don’t you go give it a whirl for us @akdere1 and see what you come up with. Would be good to have you test this out and see what results you get.
