How in the hell does Chomp calculate damage: A Deep Dive

So i’ve read a few other posts about how his chomp is calculated and they sometimes dont seem to be 100% right (probably due to the difficulty of testing) so I decided to go through and try to sort through what is true and what is not true.

for those who are unfamiliar: chomp deals a set amount of damage plus 15 percent of the opponent’s max (not current) health up to 500 damage

  1. The absolute only thing that can alter this 500 damage cap is skill damage gear
  2. his helices really only help him reach this damage cap, not increase or modify it.

So we’re going to analyze the 3 helices that modify his chomp damage.

Tier 2 Middle- Diffusion: “Chomp deals bonus damage equal to 3% of Kelvin’s current health” this just basically adds a new addition factor into the damage calculation. there is now the set damage + % of opponent max health + 3% kelvin’s current health = 500

Tier 4 Right- Slow Food: “Chomp deals increased damage against slowed enemies. +25% Damage” I thought this one was going to throw his damage through the roof as it sounds like it applies to the final damage for such a situational CC. Wrong. It pretty much just multiplies everything in front of the equals sign by 1.25 to achieve this new number, still limited by the 500 damage cap.

Tier 9 Right- Sawtooth: “Increases Chomp’s maximum health bonus damage. +15% Damage” this actually makes me mad. being a level 9 skill, i thought maybe this would be the skill that increases the damage cap. Wrong again. Well maybe it changes the 15% of opponent’s max health to 30% to really buff it up? Also wrong. It adds 15% to that 15% of opponent’s max health, giving a total of 17.25% of opponent’s max health, which is signifianctly worse than the 20% cooldown time.

So back to the skill damage point, it is the only thing i’ve found that actually buffs the damage cap of 500. if you managed to have 10% of skill damage gear, the new cap would be 550 (and I assume) would add a 1.10 multiplier in front of the equals sign similar to the tier 4 helix.

This is my proposed equation (using data according to the helix build editor)

At base: 67 damage + 15% of opponent’s max health <=500
With level 2 added: 67 damage + 15% of opponent’s max health + 3% of Kelvin’s current health <=500
With level 4 added: 1.25* (67 damage + 15% of opponent’s max health + 3% of Kelvin’s current health) <=500 if target is slowed
With level 9 added: 1.25* (67 damage + 17.25% of opponent’s max health + 3% of Kelvin’s current health) <=500 if target is slowed
With 10% skill damage gear added: 1.375* (67 damage + 17.25% of opponent’s max health + 3% of Kelvin’s current health)) <=550 if target is slowed

Of course, if the target isn’t slowed, remove the 1.25 multiplier which will have no multiplier, until you add skill damage gear.
1.375=1.25 slow10% skill damage gear. 550=500 damage cap10% skill damage gear.

So let’s throw in real numbers! Using you, a kelvin with 2000 health versus another kelvin with 2000 health because easy numbers make the world go round.
Base: 67 + (2000*.15)= 367, so we haven’t hit the cap yet. (2000*.15)=300 and will be used as such going forward
Tier 2: 67+ 300 + (2000*.03)= 427, still no cap yet! (2000*.03)=60
Tier 4: Against a slowed enemy- 1.25*(67 + 300 + 60)= 534. We finally hit the cap, but only against slowed enemies. Will only do 500 damage.
Tier 9: 67 + (2000*.1725) + 60= 472 against non-slow enemies, 590 against slow enemies (500 cap). (2000*.1725)= 345. This helix only adds 45 damage when most battleborn will be around 2000 health by the time you’re level 9 :confused:
With 10% skill gear: 1.10*(67 + 345 + 60)= 519 against non-slowed enemies, 649 to slow enemies but limited to 550 because of the cap.

Keep in mind the numbers are much more malleable and not straight forward as this- the base 67 damage actually scales as you level which makes hitting the 500 cap a lot easier, making choices like the slow and tier 9 less useful.

Both @alltheshinies and @Kitru have made amazing guides to kelvin, here and here, so maybe they can look at this and confirm/deny my data. I love any feedback, especially if i’m wrong on this!.

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The real problem is that the base damage scales so hard into the late game that every helix buffing chomp because absolutely worthless, due to the total damage being capped at 500. The bonus damage from opponent max health should be capped at 500, and the helices at 2 and 4 should go beyond it.

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This is wrong. Diffusion is not limited by the 500 damage cap, and I know because I tested it in game. Using a Voxis Core/Bola’s Target Finder/Firmware Update loadout in Sentinel, I regularly saw Chomp damage in excess of 750 while fighting the bosses (high hp automatically caps pre-multiplier damage at 500) and it varied throughout the fight based upon my current hp (i.e. it went down when I took damage and went back up when I healed). Since there were no adds to explode with Voxis Core, the total end multiplier was ~1.215 (1.091 * 1.0546 * 1.056), which would provide only ~607 damage. The exact math I can’t be entirely sure about, but I can assure you that it isn’t capped.

Sawtooth is the only Chomp damage increase helix that doesn’t allow Chomp to deal damage beyond the 500 cap.

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Do you know when that was? I feel like using +skill damage gear adds some extra variables for calculating, especially ones like bola’s target and voxis core which do a good amount of number changing depending on certain factors. I also wouldn’t put it past GBX to do some ninja changes ot kelvin/that gear that makes it more in line with how it states is shoudl work.

When I tested, nothing went above 500 damage except for adding skill damage gear and when I attacked a basic minion, as the auto-kill healh was above 500 (i hit almost 1200 when one had an overshield)

Using all 3 helices i didn’t see the numbers go above 500 against any sort of major enemy or battleborn…

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Last month when I was writing my Kelvin guide.

hmmmm that’s after they did any major changes to voxis/kelvin balancing. i’ll try to get a video to show some numbers I’m getting. chances are skill damage gear just screws with the math and does let some things go above the allocated threshhold.

but the thing that makes me not agree with that is when you select the second helix, it dynamically adds the 3% of max health to the preexisting base value but still shows the 500 cap

Were you solo or queued with others? That is actually important for testing damage in story because characters receive buffs when soloing in story mode.

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i’ve never heard that! I’ve been doing versus private and getting 500 solid

(except for shards, where i’m dealing with 600+ but literally nothing else shows that damage)

I was about to make that point.

It would be more reliable to test damage numbers in private PvP.

I’m about to mess this whole forum up.

The other day I swore I was dealing 575 damage with chomp to the sentry but I didn’t have any skill damage gear or helix’s.

Maybe I was mistaken but I’m pretty damn sure that’s what I saw.

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Both. I tested it with a friend as well as solo.

I’m not sure how or why, but when I played through the sentinel my cap was 575. I’m not sure how or why, especially because I didn’t see this happen in multiplayer at ALL but against any enemy from the minor ones to the final boss the max cap was 575 without any skill damage gear.

@jythri can you shed some light on this? Kelvin doesn’t seem to have an ounce of consistency. Damage he does in story mode is different than PVP which then does different damage when targeting shards versus battleborn.

from @alltheshinies post, he also found this to be true and similarly has no idea. I never saw the 575 cap in PVP but others have apparently…

However I think this 575 nonsense means your information was skewed.

My testing without any +skill damage gear lead to the 500/575 cap (depending on the mode I was playing) despite taking all 3 helices and using chomp on a slowed enemy. so my main posts stands that only skill damage can controlingly change the max cap. apparently it’s a toss of the dice to determine which cap is used.

I might have to grab gRANT for full details on numbers (I don’t know them off the top of my head). I do know that we do a bit of magic in PvE to accentuate character stats to keep certain characters viable in solo play, especially for Defenders and Supporters. So, it wouldn’t surprise me if Kelvin’s PvE Chomp damage went higher than in PvP.

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I am super hyped to get a definitive answer on this!

I was going to tag gRANT but i’m not sure of his tag username :grin:

I figured there was some magic at work, especially because it’s a 15% boost to the cap, whether 15 is intentional or just a side effect of the magic/different formula

me too!

It’s @gRANT_.

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This I never knew and explains the weird numbers I got during testing Chomp. I never tested the pvp numbers (outside of my recording play) because that’s much more difficult to do, especially with something like chomp where you need enemies with large health pools to test.

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