My lived experience of the evils of bullet reflection is being put into FFYL because of bullet reflection and not being able to strafe effectively while in FFYL to avoid the bullets I was firing to get up from shooting me in the face.
I somehow have a ton of these in every Ele, But i have never played with the protuberances
So your saying these guns won’t reflect the bullets?
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I think they don’t fire bullets - more like stream/blobs of vomit. So, pure splash damage, perhaps? By the way, are Torgue projectiles reflected or not?
Well, I can’t verify because I haven’t done m3 in ages (as soon as I learned how to do M4, it’s all I do. Easier said because I don’t do SS), but I’m pretty sure if you have a non-bullet style projectile, it’s not something that can be reflected. Hosts and protuberances fire balls of element that either bounce or split into more.
Alien Barrel ARs shoot beams. Splash technically can’t be reflected, as far as I know, so if you shot NEAR an enemy with Splash you should be good too.
I should probably play some m3 just to verify sometime. But my response to reflect was always to switch to my splash and beam weapons.
Good information, thx. I wonder if that means the Sploders don’t reflect as well? I know the slpoders shoot a projectile and have the laser, so that means the projectile will reflect. May pull out the Protuberances and try them, maybe keep one on me at all times
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Mayhem mode modifiers in general are lazy programming and a few might be cool but most are just awful and negatively affect gameplay, nothing like a nightfall in Destiny.
The design of the maliwan takedown is lazy programming too, it’s only designed for four because it helps draw enemy aggro, gearbox approach to difficulty is pathetic.
I honestly think the only good team they have is the gear and art designers, their combat design has always been just meh, ya know give em something to shoot at, I mean what does the fabricator even do? It appears to be a redesigned constructor but just weaker IMO. Even Randy said the gear team was ahead of the rest the team in game development.
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Fabricator fabricates loaders
Exactly what i thought but how much more lazy and unoriginal could they have been?
I never had problem with reflexion in m3 you just had to kill mobs not with bullets, grenades ., lasers, splash damage, action skill, gun with special effect anything goes.Besides you have to deal with this kind of thing in takedown with shield soldiers
Just out of curiosity, what would “better enemy AI” look like to the people who say that the “true difficulty increase” is Better AI?
Because I don’t know what you could make different? The enemies fire you down til you’re down, then run when they’re low on health or you’re trying to get a second wind.
Tank enemies get in the way and block your ability to get the easy ones down. The squishy guys run. The nogs throw shields on enemies as they’re about to die.
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You and @olivier_shady have convinced me to change my position on bullet reflection now that I know that some classes of guns don’t reflect, which addresses my central objection, which was the absence of counterplay. So I no longer loathe it. I just hate it now 
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I once ran the Hellwalker anyway while farming Tyreen with a Splattergun Zane. My highlight moment was managing to somehow hit ffyl and second wind off her face 
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Yeah. It’s a crap modifier, but I always saw it as “switch to a different weapon or be prepared for hell”.
Meanwhile Anti-Crit on m4 is basically a Health Boost for Enemies…unless you were trash or splash to begin with. If you never hit crits anyway, this doesn’t affect you. But if you’re a Crit Queen/King, then it’s weirdly like saying “The enemies take longer to die and it’s your fault for wanting to be an ace shot”. Maybe it’s an attempt to get you to use more splash weapons or something. But it’s still an odd choice.
+2 Projectiles, I find wild because Two F4ng/Playing Dirty are apparently so OP, we’re only allowed a chance at them, but enemies can have them on always? Weird flex. The problem with it is the way multi-projectiles in the same space interact with Zane’s barrier and your own thought that it “Counters The Game’s Health Gate”. I personally see Health Gate as a counter to the games odd damage handling. Because there’s so many enemies and guns do so much damage, there has to be a way to not get killed constantly because all you need is ten enemies firing to drop you immediately. But in this situation, that number drops to only needing to be 3.
I guess it’s the “take cover” modifier. But then we need more cover in CoV areas. I think. Idk, I reroll this one ever since the Cunning Trial from Hell.
Though, I accidentally ran Jakobs Estate Story Mission with this one. Hahah
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I will admit the death spheres have given me some trouble when I’ve ran takedown with 2x projectiles, they shoot out enough regularly.
The crit one is definitely a bash to the ace shot that’s for sure! I didnt realize about the different weapons that wont reflect.
Just made another thread about this. This is my experience as well. I normally don’t even look at the modifiers but every so often I just start dying repeatedly from getting one shot and I’m like wtf is going on? Then I look at the modifier and every time it’s the +2 projectile modifier. Going to start rerolling this modifier I guess. I think it’s a bit too much. I mean there is no counter or way to avoid it so not worth suffering through IMO.
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Hmm …
I think, though you probably won’t agree …
You are right. I don’t agree. lol. If I had perfectly synergized gear with anointments you might have a point but I don’t have that.
Also, the whole “don’t get hit” is not really possible. The times this modifier kills me is when breaking into a new area and there are an abundance of mobs and frequently mobs from many angles making it impossible to “take cover” effectively. In that scenario you go down before you can get any mob close enough to death to make FFYL kills even possible (on TVHM M4 anyway). This is why (for me) it really has no counter and why it will frequently kill me multiple times in short succession because I can’t break the new area.
Not saying it’s not possible for others. If you are able to counter it…you are better than me but this is my experience.
Actually it is a thing.
- Amara - Phase grasp
- Moze - Iron Bear
- FL4K - literally goes fecking invisible and with some builds he can keep going invisible almost indefinitely
There are also immunity based builds. For example, stacking stop gap shield with invulnerable artifact so when your shield breaks you get 5 seconds of immunity to retreat and/or recover and when that’s not enough and your health goes below 50% you get another 5 seconds of immunity. Please note, I’m not saying nor suggesting that it is easy to do, I’m simply pointing out that though it’s a royal PITA it’s doable.
I’m using Amara with a quick AS CD. Normally phasegrasp works for me but with this modifier I find it’s not effective many times because when breaking into many new areas mobs spawn in such a way that I can’t effectively use phasegrasp to control them because they are too spread out.
I also benefit greatly from being close to my enemies so that is nullified. I end up grasping a couple enemies but the others pummel me when I stand in the open trying to kill the couple I manage to grasp.
If I manage to kill a few off then I can slowly manage the scenario but this frequently takes multiple deaths which is not a viable strategy IMO. Again, if I had gear with anointments and better synergy I might be able to overcome this but I just can’t kill quick enough to overcome this many times.
Don’t get hit is a really lame line of advice, lol. And your suggestions here were really build centric. If the goal of M4 is to test Synergized builds, there should not be a modifier that you have to break your usual loadout synergy to manage. IE if I have a Gamma Burst Fl4k, I shouldn’t have to break my incredibly focused Gamma Synergy to use Fade Away just to not get hit.
You know that my example makes no sense because Red Fang is actually better than Fade Away for not getting hit, but the concept remains the same throughout. The counter play you’re suggesting relies entirely on abandoning the synergy we were given the mode for. Ergo, it’s anti-thetical, and I win 
<333333
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