How to improve borderlands 3(idea crafting) - skill tree

I’ve been doing a little bit of idea crafting on how to improve things/fix problems in borderlands. One of the first things i looked into was the skill trees. let me know your feedback and/or tell us if you have any ideas yourselves.


Problem: Post launch level increases lowers build diversity. less of a problem in BL2, its more of a problem in BLTPS and BL1

Solution 1 : Add a 4th skill tree to each character post launch - mostly self explanatory, bunch of new 5 point skills and 2 or more G.C.(Game changers) skills (One point skills)

Solution 2: Expand existing skill trees to each character post launch - add more skills through out the skill tree 5 point skills and G.C. skills

section notes- i know both of solutions are basically more skills but the problem isn’t mainly levels, its how far down you can go down skill trees all at once. like i said not as much of problem in bl2 but more so the fact in the other two borderlands and you so many skill points but not a lot of skills to invest them in(at least decision wise).


Improvement: How to make the skill tree more interesting in BL3

Solution 1: special/breakthrough G.C. Skills - let say you can get special skill points, maximum of three(one per play-through, maybe through a special event in the story) and there would be six special skills, three of those being breakthrough. to explain a special is a game-changer skill that require a special skill point. Then a breakthrough skill is also a G.C. skill that requires a special skill point but lets you break into the middle of another skill tree from the middle of a skill tree, giving you the chose to skip portion of the skill tree but miss out on possibly good skills and G.C. skills. for example if this concept was in BL2 and your playing Zer0 you can break into sniper tree from his Cunning or Bloodshed getting to Critical Ascensi0n faster but skipping past skills like B0re. I’ve explained this visually here in this video or picture below(S= Special skill, B= Breakthrough skill

Solution 2: skill tree dedication “skill”/buff/stats - not sure what to call this so ill just call it dedication stats. The idea with skill tree dedication stats is, along side picking a skill in the a skill tree you get small bonuses for putting points in said skill tree. to put this with more detail,(warning I will be using random numbers up a head, just want to note I’m not a game balancer and never been one so if you think the numbers i state is too low or too high, lets just pretend we’re in unicorn/fairy world and the numbers are perfectly balanced) lets make a hypothetical character, lets call him Joe Smoe. He has a skill tree called beefy Boi, this skill tree dedication stats are health, shields and damage reduction. so every point you invest in that skill tree increases his health, shields and damage reduction by 0.5% per point in that skill tree. Maybe even make so that the more you invest in the tree the more dedication bonus you get for future points, for example the first 5 points in the tree give you a bonus of 0.5%, the next 5 will give 1%, then the next 5 will give you 1.5%, so on and so forth.


final note: don’t have a good place to put this but i hope they tweek bad/under performing skills and tweek them sooner. Don’t put this in the main part of the post since i felt it was mostly self explanatory but I’ve spent quite a lot of my time as Maya(most played right next to krieg) and i remember just how bad cloud kill sucked back then and wasn’t until way later, long after i stop playing bl2 for quite sometime that they buffed cloud kill(sigh).


want to talk about other ways to improve borderlands 3? Check out my other how to improve BL3 post(s), link below
Weapon attachment/prefix customization

2 Likes

I think skill trees as they stand are good enough already, and creating a whole bunch of additional considerations will just make it all that much more difficult to get things how you want them with the skill points given.
The only real “issue” I see is the occasional skill that’s just completely useless or becomes useless by the endgame. Efforts should be focused on refining the three trees to all be balanced/equally viable, rather than throwing together some bonus perks to make up for shortcomings in the skills themselves.

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The issue I had with skill trees up to now is some skills are situational at best and that some characters have more of these situational at best skills than others which results in some characters feeling like they have less build options.

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fair point, don’t really talk about refining the skills or say improve skill design, mainly i think they clearly are going to do that. Really just spitballing out ideas for skill tree design.

which skills do you think are the worst at being too situational?

I like how skill trees work in borderlands 2, However I’m open to seeing and trying new things, it sounds like gearbox is planning on experimenting with the formula as they have said every character will have “massive skill trees”. am excited to see what they do differently even if it is only a little.

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here is what I think about skill tree’s
1st Character related
2nd Elemental
3rd Health and if you add a 4th then
4th Melee
But currently the skill tree’s are very good and well done so i see no need for a 4th one any sirens will need elemental for sure health and character related
Gunzerkers get Character related , Gun damage skill tree , Melee ,Similar to zero and mordecai 1st is sniper 2nd is melee 3rd is character related for an assasin
Next commando Gun focused ability tree and then last a character related so
No matter what they need 3 trees first one is gun/melee/Elemental/Health 2nd is Character Related 3rd is an Ability Improvement tree . So that is how i feel skill tree’s should be . And thankfully they buffed it or we would have lots of people not want to be siren’s. Also if you get the last skill in a skill tree i think you should get a leveled class mod for your level and the more skills you have the better the class mod.

Skill tree systems in my opinion is an idea, which sooner or later will die in the industry.

From a player perspective I don’t see the point into investing into the skills, which make little to no difference for my gameplay.

It would be cool to have many gamechanging big skills, but limited skill slots for those skills, so a player is limited in his choice of what his character is going to do good. Like you can learn 100 different gamechanging skills(some of them unique to your class some of them are not) on your character, but only 10 can work. With like active slots number increasing with level.

It will eliminate the problem of skill cheaters in coop and will make more builds viable.

I liked the skill system in the witcher 3, but the issues of that system was that most skills were really minor to the gameplay and the combat system was kinda meh, especially, when you figurued out the single most effective way of playing it(alchemy intoxication with the right mutation could give like 300% bonus damage and almost infinite stamina due to the manticore set being a medium armor).

I want to feel the real change in my gameplay, when I level up and skill trees rarely give me this feeling until I reach some milestones or smth. I want to feel it all the time.

Are there skill cheaters in BL?

Yep. You can basically have a level 1 commando with all skills maxed out and go into coop without any problems and there are many ways to do so.

I think the problem with most online coop games is that there always will be people, who cheat and abuse the game. The only way to solve this issue completely is to come up with the system, which limits incentives from cheating behaviour.

P.S. OFC, there ought to be some CS like cheats as well like aimbots, but I don’t know about them, because it would be just the next level of lame using them in PVE, so I have never met even a single one.

Sounds mostly like PC problems. I play on console so I guess this is much much smaller issue. And with TPS allowing you to see all the gear and skill trees of coop players you can kick that player from your game. I mostly play solo, but for coop I suggest to play only with your friends, not random people.

There is no problem with skill tree’s also They are one of the reasons that Borderlands 2 was not a boring game. Not to mention in BLTPS Made Nisha Viable from skill tree’s remember fan the hammer or gunzerking nisha . Yea exactly if that was not in the game we would have a boring game with no point of raid bosses . Salvador regen’s ammo and can grenade Jump from his skill tree also gains a lot of his fame from it. So Skill Tree’s matter

True and i think skill tree’s are good to have
you guys forget we would not have melee zero builds or breakneck banshee siren build .
Or even have the gunzerker or grenade jumping look at BL2 why its great skill tree’s is a significant part guys I also play on Console : Xbox ) (If anyone was wondering xbox 1 )