How to make Rath not a complete pile of poo, and no he is not OP

First things first, I have 165 hours played (Account name Tananie, feel free to add). I would like to think I have a solid grasp on at least a handful of characters and I will tell you that anyone claiming Rath is OP has no clue what they are talking about. A Rath in the wrong hands up till level 5 is a useless feeder, and after level 5, he is still a pile of garbage unless a few conditions are met: His ult is ready and he happens to get the drop on multiple characters at low health.

This is the only time he is really of great use is spinning through a group of low healthers. Otherwise you are running around the map tagging minions, then trying to sneak up on people and try and finish off those at low health before the others notice you and tear your squishy ass apart.

Oh and did you know Rath can easily have his ult wasted by simply melee attacking him out of range? Yeah. Not to mention he can get stunned out of it all sorts of ways.

While that fact adds to his crappiness, let’s take a look at other issues:

1: Crossblade
A: Needs to be instant cast
B: Needs a much faster recovery time.

We are offered some helix choices to amp up Crossblade but they are worthless because of how hard Crossblade is to land on anything not sitting still. Then even if you do hit with it, you’re punished with a long recovery time which is pointless because it’s not like the skill is that powerful warranting leaving you a complete sitting duck post cast.

At helix level 1 we are offered Slowing Strike as an option to Crossblade, but you’d be an idiot to pass up Waveform to augment your Smash as it’s practically a necessity to widen Smash’s cast range. I will get into that next though.

2: Catalytic Smash:
A: Needs to have Waveform Smash helix option built in.
OR…
B: Big damage increase.

How many times are you faced with an enemy that is just standing still allowing you to land a Smash with its bad standard narrow pattern? Not to mention there’s a delay in its cast even after you aim it making it harder to hit anything. It’s not even like the skill ends up being that powerful at any point to warrant it being that hard to hit someone with.

Other Helix related issues:

You’d be silly to not take the skills offered which slow or silence so basically any other skill augment offered at that level may as well not exist. For all heroes, they should automatically get a slow or a silence skill for free at something like level 7 allowing the player to truly have a decision in which augment to take.

The level 1 mutation Concussive Smash is garbage. Why am I going to forego Waveform for a skill that stuns a single player for a couple seconds IF I actually manage to hit them with Crossblade? Barf.
This effectively means I am forced to take Zealous Smash at level 9 instead of Softened Target if I do take CS. Softened means you have to use Smash first before attacking with Crossblade while Concussive Smash means you have to hit the player first with Crossblade. So you’re then forced to take Zealous Smash which is garbage because how many times are you actually killing anyone with Smash? And you would need to stay alive long enough for the 3 second reduction on Deadwind to even take effect, THEN you actually need to have an enemy immediately ready to attack with Deadwind when the cooldown goes off to even really make use of that 3 second reduction to the cooldown, otherwise it’s a waste. Horrible planning, guys. How many times do you think anyone is going to kill someone with Smash within Deadwind’s cooldown? Come on. The synergy is all jacked up here especially if you take Concussive.

Those are my main gripes for now. Hope they help in rebalancing ths character.

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Yeah…no.

Rath is a nightmare up-close with his abilities and basic damage output, if you are finding problems while playing him then you need more time to actually learn him. I know you say you have a “solid grasp” but from your post, I would argue against that. In fact, if I am honest, I gave up on the post around halfway through as it just felt obnoxious.

But no, Rath is not a “complete pile of poo” is he OP? That is not for me to decide, that is calculated and decided upon form the data Gearbox are gathering. However, before I leave and await an excellent, professional reply from yourself - “after level 5, he is still a pile of garbage unless a few conditions are met: His ult is ready and he happens to get the drop on multiple characters at low health” was hilarious, he has one of the highest DPS in the game with his ULT, literally shredding a tank like Montana in one use.

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This threat makes me laugh.
I’m a master of Rath for a long time now lost 5 matches out of 36. By far my best character.
First you should choose the slow man that’s your first mistake.
You smash them up and while they land you slow them then start bashing them. The timing of the crossblade is really easy after catalytic smash and it can hit multiple enemies at once.
And just time your catalytic smash its so easy to land it’s not like Ghalt’s hook or shooting Aurox.
want a instant kill with your ult?? Smash > cross > Ult (with slow on cross)
Practise this in private and then try in public and you will wreck mate.

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I suppose typo, and you mean thread (vs threat)?

Anywho, on the whole, usefull advice from you - but - no reason to be condescending towards O P as O P has concerns and struggles with a char.

I’ve gotta agreee with the other two, though I personally believe rath needs some tuning. not necessarily enough to consider it a nerf, but I feel that rath vs almost any melee character, if they have the same amount of skill with their characters and are fairly okay with them, rath will almost always win. Reason?

and

Thats better than phoebe, because rath, with his much more powerful secondary attack, can deal a higher amount of dps, and has more width to his attacks, so he needs less accuracy. Also, because this combo does a lot more damage than teleport+blade rush, and lets face it, phoebe wouldn’t even use bladerush, teleport is her only useful initiator. And I do know phoebe adequately, I’ve mastered her at character level eight, which means the game is broken, but nonetheless. (lv 10 with her right now)

Rath falls back in some cases due to his lack of chase moves, crossblade being slow and taking time to cast and also having a cooldown is subpar, and smash is only useful if you’re hot on their tail. The reason phoebe is good is because she can increase her speed, slow people down, and simply move forward with her teleport, use truestrike to get hits when everything is on cooldown, and use bladerush to finish off a runner. But Rath doesn’t need to run.

I could compare rath to every melee character, but it’s roughly the same. S&A is about the only character that can wreck a rath if patient enough, (and boldur, possibly) because S&A can fetch rath out of his ult, but if he silences them, it’s all over. Rath can insta-kill benedict from very far away with leap or extended smash length then ult, andthe same goees for a lot of characters that can “run away”, as long as they don’t know they’re running yet (basically, rath can’t chase the best, but can just insta-kill the fast characters with little getting in his way before they know he’s there)

Anywho, I can’t say all too much and certainly won’t call him “OP” because I personally have not played him or ambra yet, and therefore my judgement is not of personal experience with him, but obversations while playing with him on my team/against him

If u have no skill at this game at all just use raths ult and u will be 10 times better player. Zero skill required

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The funny part is every competitive scrimmage I’ve been in has involved a rath one way or another… because his knockup+silence alone is worth picking him… add in a ranged slow, and then his ult and he brings sooooo much CC to a team just by being there.

The only hard part about the character is choosing your engagements and avoiding damage until you can get yours off, everything else is a cake-walk.

And, no, he certainly doesn’t need a buff.

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Raths ult is most powerful move in game. My question is why would u need to approach only low health charaters.

Ahhh, the great Rath debate. Never gets old lol. Its interesting to see what’s side of the fence everyone is on. I personally, feel Rath doesn’t need a nerf. While I agree his ultimate is very strong, it’s not enough to warrant a nerf. All the While, everyone screams silence, but it doesn’t ensure the kill. In a way it almost feels necessary to his setup. I’ve played private matches just to showcase characters ability for escaping Raths ultimate. Only after he asked me to turn my back and stand there was he able to actually secure the kill. And I would hope so. I can count on one hand the number of characters that TRULY have issues with Raths ultimate. The rest are granted helix choices and tools that give them that escape. What it sounds like is that most are unwilling/unaware of said choices. Not to mention quick melee. And as for the head juggling, that’s an issue outside Rath, because collision mechanics (especially large characters) can be frustrating. Statements like these can so quickly degrade into “git gud” feelings, but that’s not my angle. I do however, hold a player responsible if they are unwilling to change and adapt. That being said, there is no “guaranteed” way to stop Rath. If there was, his usefulness as a character would be naught. The same end result from receiving a nerf imo. You can however, take precautions to help avoid being on the receiving end of Rath. All in all, I would be sad to see him get nerfed. I’d almost go as far to say it would be pandering to a group of hypocrites. Untill you’ve exhausted all other options, crying nerf is a last resort. Regardless of how Gearbox handles it, at the end of the day, I’ll still destroy any Rath that dares cross my path. Weapon of choice? Rogue Magnus, ISIC baby! See you all on the battlefield!

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