How well does BSS synergize with Fancy Maths and Unstoppable Force?

I’m thinking, if I take Blood Soaked Shields, what other shield skills would make for the best use of my points?

I’m going into this, thinking that in theory:

  • BSS fuels Fancy Mathematics, and Fancy Maths provides an alternative method of healing shields, in case you can’t get kills fast enough, like if you don’t deal enough damage, or if you’re fighting a big dude and there’s no easy goons nearby.
  • Unstoppable Force allows your shield to continue regenning for 6 seconds after the kill, in case you get immediately beefed on by the remaining enemies. The movement bonus also allows you a faster retreat, or a faster rush to put your shotgun/hammer in the enemy’s gob.

That said, I don’t know how well this applies in practice, and if these bonuses are worth the skill points. It also probably depends on if the player is going high or low anarchy, and what health-regen skills they’re taking. I’m not entirely sure what I want at the moment, all I know is that I just got all the skills I wanted out of the BFF tree and I’m not sure what to do now.

Anyway thanks for reading, could I get some insight please?

Fancy math is for when your on your back foot running for your life/regroup (Ex: deathtrap on cooldown) …

Unstoppable force (and evil enchantress) is (are) triggered on Deathtrap’s kills , BSS isn’t (only things you kill for yourself). The distinction is important because Sharing is caring + make it sparke + roid shield makes deathrap insanely potent in melee and his melee kill streaks will keep your shields topped (as long as deathrap lives and has stuff to kill in melee - you’re very very hard to kill and don’t need BSS that much … can get it later ) …

If you don’t use the super deathrap build (low level or other reasons) or in an area where deathrap cannot get melee kills … more likely you’ll need fancy maths and since your Gaige will have to do a lot of killing …both/either BSS and unstoppable force (split points ? ) will undoubtedly help…

So to the question I should’ve asked first … What level is your Gaige at ?

I’m currently at LV38, so I’m probably not respeccing into BSS right away, for losing a lot of the good skills of the BFF tree. I’m asking for future reference, so I’ve got an idea of what I should do next, and later on.

I do appreciate the notes on how they interact with DT and his buffs, even if I won’t be at that level for a while.

I can see the point some players make that BSS can make the other two skills somewhat obsolete, but I always like taking UF anyway because I love speed boosts. :slight_smile: And I pretty much agree with your reasoning in taking it. It’s a little extra shield regen in case you have a DOT on you or whatnot.


I think Fancy Maths is better for when you don’t have adds around with which to fuel your kill skills (some boss fights and raid scenarios). I’m with @Rumplebunny on Unstoppable Force, movements speed alone makes it worth points, and fighting dots is the cherry on top. Gaige’s health regen is either between engagements with Cooking Up Trouble or during Discord loops, she usually tanks better with shields.

I’d probably recommend the Organized Chaos tree to Discord and BSS for your next steps. You can stop at Discord to build LBT if you like, but discord looping is your friend and it helps manage your Anarchy stacks. Just my 2 cents.

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Also for those of us who like using spike shields; 10+ points in Unstoppable Force makes that shield re-tank hard… like you can face tank Wormhole Threshers trying to make out with you.


I’ve never felt the need for neither Fancy Maths nor Unstoppable Force at that level. Don’t get me wrong… They’re both great skills, but at level 38, BSS will be quite enough. By the time you start getting close to level 50, you might wanna drop some points inone of them, or both.

When you enter UVHM, a lot of enemies will have elemental guns. Also, the DoT’s are much more dangerous. Unstoppable Force does a great job on dealing with that. Provided you get a kill first, that is. :wink:

Me, me, me! :upside_down_face:

Payback is a bitch, eh! :sunglasses:

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I’ve never liked investing in Fancy Mathematics because of the effectiveness of BSS, but any skill that increases movement speed is worth any number of skill points.

Sounds like Unstoppable Force is good even with BSS, and I’m not hearing much for Fancy Maths. Which leads me to a question I’ve had for quite a while. How do you all deal with big beefy enemies with no weak mooks around?

Legit, that’s been my biggest hurdle in this game, when I focus on skills/gear that regens on kill. Until I got Law & Order on my Krieg, I died many a time because my main source of healing was killing other enemies, and if I used up all my healing mooks, there’s nothing left for heals and second winds. Plus, some enemies and bosses just don’t have a whole lot of nearby minions to heal off of. I’ve encountered this problem with Gaige as well, though DT taking aggro alleviates that a lot better.

And yet, I rarely hear about other people having the same problem. How do you ignore regen abilities that don’t rely on kills and still not have a problem with big tanky enemies?

Kill them before they hurt you!

But, a more serious answer is this: enemy management. I don’t use Fancy because I never wanna be low enough in health that it’s a good boost. And I also run BSS and Unstoppable…and also, I run a weird Melee build. So my answer is not good for most people, but here goes.

I kill everything I can with low clip weapons to build anarchy, then for the big guys, I find a bladed Moxxi gun, let the enemy pop my shield to give me a roid boost, and then swing away with my claws. Fancy Math would ruin that. Unstoppable Force already makes it a weird dance to wait for it to stop before it swing, but that gives me a reason to fire my guns to build anarchy, so, solid trade off.

But it’s all gonna depend on how your play is. My playstyle isn’t for everyone (or…like…anyone, really), so my answers are maaaddd different.

So, look into what you want from a shield. Are you using spikes or novas or amps or melee? Melee will be ruined by Fancy, in my opinion. BSS lets you refill your nova shield on any kills. Which is great. Unstoppable makes your spikes come back. Fancy will make it easier to top up an amp shield again.

I ignored boosters here.

I have no experience with boosters. WTF

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It’s incredibly satisfying. My Bandit Mechromancer usually packs a Hide of Terra shield in Thresher country, and watching them burn through the spikes is like watching a bomb burn through a fuse - if they survive the spike attack, they won’t survive the nova. My Maliwan Mechromancer uses a shock spike shield, and Electrical Burn, and in addition to Unstoppable Force, has Evil Enchantress on deck, so the shield hits and resulting Electrical Burn damage hit pretty hard.

Different tactics, really. Got a specific example in mind?

I see what you did there.


A legendary joke.

I remember, a few days ago, I encountered a single, lone Badass Pryo Thresher on the Highlands coast. Died maybe once or twice, and the only reason I beat it was because it was focused on DT one time.

My melee Krieg had some serious issues tho. On TVHM, the Toil and Trouble Buzzards ate half my money. The Warrior was awful because I can’t hit the rakks and the only other mobs were two crystalisks. And then Saturn is Saturn. Only managed to get up from FFYL because of the little turrets on it. Most of my issues were early on though, before I got Release the Beast for reliable, non-kill based healing. I had a lot of instances where I killed everything and then the last enemy was a badass or a shield Nomad and I’d die. Suicide Psychos were especially dangerous.

I recognize Krieg and Gaige are vastly different, but I haven’t seen a whole lot of this problem for Gaige yet. I don’t know what to accredit that to. I just know that I’ve had a lot of issues in the past when my main means of healing is getting kills and I can’t just retreat.

I mean, the main thing for big bads is to have a plan. For me, big bads like that get a Moxxi Gun. For a lot of people, that’s Rocket Launcher Time.

OH. If I’m feeling feisty, that’s when I bust out the Shocket Launcher. That’s the new Peak Opener assault rifle from Torgue. It’s good on everyone, but Gaige and Krieg make good work of its quirks. But you gotta beat Hate Ur Ex for that (Haderax). So. Maybe not viable.

But basically, you want something that either hits like a brick house on an east witch, or something that’ll bubble up your health like Glinda.


Tesla grenades work really well on them. All those tentacles means that there are multiple targets for the AoE to hit. Since you can kill these tentacles individually, you can also get second winds off them and activate your kill skills.

Perhaps Gaige suits your playstyle better. Krieg takes some learning before he gets going, and especially melee Krieg. I would also like to point out that there’s no law against using guns on melee Krieg. :smile:

That’s how you beat them! Plain and simple! Once you have a plan, you won’t panic when situations appear. Instead you’ll just Stay Calm and Keep Killing! Some areas require you to respec or use specific gear.

Here are a few tips for both Krieg and Gaige on how to survive the buzzards in Sawtooth, the Warrior and Saturn.


While the turrets and the pup skag can give you second winds, they also are the first things that die. Leaving you with nothing to SW off. But just before you enter the area where Saturn spawns, there are a few loaders. I usually run past them, and once I’ve spawned Saturn, I shoot a few rounds towards those loaders. They will aggro, and move towards you. Now you have something else to get SW off, and you also have something to activate kill skills off. Once you have enough skill points, you should use them in Blood Bath. I promise, you will melt everything!


A challenge for melee Krieg! Stack up on health with your gear. This will make it easier to manage the activation of RtB. Whether you kill the bandits first, or save them for SW’s is situational, imo. They often have strong weapons, and can be just as deadly as the buzzards. They are usually easier to get SW’s off, though. Your call!

Anarchy Gaige should sail through here with little or no trouble at all, but using a nova shield with a huge blast radius will improve things even more. It will hit buzzards that get too close, and if the nova is corrosive… You get the idea! :wink:

Alternate method for both Krieg and Gaige is to use a Flame of the Firehawk with a huge blast radius. It will be very low level in NVHM and TVHM, but both Deathtrap and Krieg will have it active for very long periods. This eventually wears enemies down. Once you have Blood Bath on Krieg… Yep! That nova will tear through everything!

The Warrior

Flame of the Firehawk works well on the Rakk, and once you’ve killed one of them, they will keep coming. It’s basically and endless supply of SW-fodder. For Gaige, I’d recommend the tactic suggested by @Adabiviak earlier. A spike shield and maxed out Unstoppable Force.

All you have to do now is kill those pesky bosses! Have fun!:sunglasses:


I always use BSS and Fancy Maths and i feel like it does work wonders, and I should mention that i always use a all pangolin Blockade that really appreciates the buffs, even more if you don’t use moxxi healing to keep your health as low as possible while chaining kills and tanking with BSS. Unstoppable force is mandatory to Gaige in my playstyle as it allows you to get into your enemies faces quicker, and that % recharge is always good as it helps fighting DOTs. I personally see gaige as a shield tank so she appreciates any buff to her shield stats, so for me this is a SICK combo