HW1 Classic > HW1 Remastered

Because gameplay > graphics, which you all apparently forgot or didn’t know in the first place, so allow me to reiterate:

Gameplay is, always has been, and always will be more important than pretty graphics. Porting the HW1 campaign into the remastered HW2 engine might have saved you time and money (as opposed to actually remastering both games), but as is evidenced by both these forums and the forums you don’t monitor (i.e. the Steam forums (i.e. the platform you chose to distribute on…)), it was a mistake. The HW1 “Remastering” is a joke. For reasons, simply read the forums (no ballistics, strike craft nerfed, missile destroyers useless, etc.).

Then there’s the bugs. I’m not even going to list all the bugs I’ve found (as I have found quite a few), but the biggest one: in the upper left corner, there is a broken section of UI. The empty area defined by the lower and right edges of the Main Menu button and the Objectives/Recall buttons area is unclickable. This is because whoever was responsible for trimming the area around the button frame in which the previously-mentioned buttons reside failed to do so. As this area is defined by UI elements, it increases with UI scaling, resulting in large portions of the screen becoming unusable/unclickable.

And as an aside: at 1920x1080, UI scale 1 is too small (unit counters practically unreadable), and 2 is too large (besides the exacerbated problem with the aforementioned UI bug).

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The question is whether or not eventually Homeworld Remastered will ever resemble the original. I’m not sure if this can be achieved through patches alone. But in its current state, the game is unplayable for me.

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Well, yes. While HW1 was about the beautiful art (at the time) & the intensive SF story, it was also about more advanced game mechanics than other RTS at the time. Most obvious, 3D but also formations and ballistics come to my mind.

So, remastering HW1 in the art dimension, while downgrading it in the game mechanic one seems unfitting the label “Remaster” and the importance the game mechanic carries for HW1.

About solutions: A backport of the HW1R game art & assets into the HW1 classic engine, adding a “HW1C HD” to the collection, could be GBX’s answer for the die-hard and purist HW1 fans here! :wink: (or let the community do it themselves with Homeworld SDL, just give a hand here (e.g. license, tools, format specifications etc))

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No need to be that harsh on them, i’m a HW1 hardcore player and i have to say that i kinda enjoy HW:RM, and yes i think that this game can get A LOT better via patching, they just need to pay attention to feedback, and here is the trick part, separate the good feedback from the bad.

For me priority right now is fix the gameplay issues, i listed them here:
http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/t/things-that-need-to-be-fixed-asap-on-gameplay

They will also have to take a look into the upgrade system, by now it is kinda hard to say how much it should be tweaked cuz those gameplay issues listed above will affect tha balance a lot IMO.

And finally they need to reduce the capital ship power-scaling, it is ridiculous how strong a destroyer is near a frigate and how strong a battlecruiser is near a destroyer, for that reason the way that things are done is pretty much set, you have no choice playing as HW1, once you done the research for frigates YOU HAVE to go for the destroyers, forget the ion frigate if you research that you are doommed because the destroyer is so much better, same applys to the missile destroyer, once you are done with the destroyer research YOU HAVE to go for the heavy cruiser, because the heavy cruiser is so much better. That is kind sad, the game leaves no options for the player like HW1, you have no choice, build the overpowered ship or get doomed :frowning:, that is an issue of the HW2 balance, that got inherit by HW:RM, people keep saying, that this is because it is hard to get to the next level ship, but from my experience it is not, it is pretty easy actually. I hope they look carefully on this and nerf a little the next level ship, so we can have choices again.

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I’m sorry, but I simply cannot stand people defending Gearbox. Here’s what they did:

  1. Bugs everywhere. The games needed a couple more months of pure testing and bugfixing
  2. Castrated gameplay - formations,behaviors, fuel, support frigates, salvage corvettes, all broken. Chance system used for projectiles, instead of ballistics. Who cares about gameplay when we have shiny graphics, right?
  3. Audio. Instead of going with original voices/sfx at lossless quality (which Paul Ruskay has, which was stated multiple times) they rerecorded them for no apparent reason. New ones are way worse of course.
  4. Little, but climatic things getting lost and taken away from the game, because no one cares enough apparently. Yes- the Ladder in credits, spinning research ship etc.
  5. Classic versions lacking any multiplayer. LAN was cut out for no reason other than to make people play remastered. And here I was hoping for classic MP servers…

I could go on and on about this…

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Funny you say that, since the co-op matches I’ve been playing with a friend vs the CPU have been as such that if we try to go for Destroyers before Ion Cannon Frigates, and the AI is agressive or tough enough, we could have our hands full with frigates and insufficient heavy firepower in the maybe one Destroyer we’ve built to deal with them. By the time the first Destroyer is off the line, we could have had half a dozen Ion Frigates to fend off flak frigates that would have otherwise slaughtered our Defender and corvette swarms… which, if they are being shredded, allow the enemy strike craft to swarm the larger ships… and the Destroyer, as it stands, is more akin to a pair of ion frigates and maybe half an assault frigate that just dies a bit slower. Especially against Hiigaran or Vaygr Destroyers, they’re pathetic, which just seems wrong considering they’re armed with Ion Cannons versus kinetic turrets and torpedoes.

And this is actual battle experience, not just theoretical planning based on the tech tree and how ‘close’ each tech looks. I have been overrun one match where I went for Destroyers first, while I’ve held my ground when I’ve gone for Ion Frigate first in another. And I can consistently hold my own in these vs CPU matches with the order my friend and I have settled on.

And that, my friend, is where the problem is- I deviate from this pattern - Defender, Ion Frigate, Destroyer, Carrier, Heavy Cruiser - and I’m in worse shape every time. There’s no reason to use Interceptors or Bombers, because the Defender just puts out more firepower, and the Bombers are, quite honestly, just not worth it as it stands- Ion Frigates serve the purpose of killing capitals more than competently in the numbers possible. Mix in Multi-Gun Corvettes or Heavy Corvettes, and you have a vicious fleet that puts out insane amounts of fire.

Now, of course, this probably has no bearing on vs-player matches… but the AI is unforgiving enough that if I do try to rush for supercaps, I can and will get trounced for my audacity.

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HW1 had balance testing, HW1Re has not.

Otherwise they would have fixed corvettes prior to release

You must not have been around when Homeworld 2 was released in 2003. If you think this is bad, Homeworld 2 gamespy was so bad a lot of people couldn’t even host without having to port forward. Really, This is literally the best version of homeworld we have. I was there, playing ladder on Homeworld 1 back in the day, getting desynced half the time, crashed, etc. Then Homeworld 2 came out, and there were still TONS of bugs, so many they had to put on an emergency patch 1.1 right away. A lot of us back then felt the game had just been unfinished even on release given the state it was in. (Only 6 player maps, 8 player maps were gone.) I was lucky to even get into a game on Homeworld 2 back then, hence why the multiplayer died so quickly. It just didn’t work.

Even this beta so far has been a far better and smoother experience than playing Homeworld 2 Classic.

Believe it or not, Homeworld 1 was not perfect in its balance either, it had it’s own flaws, that never got fixed. Though it was much better than Homeworld 2. Maybe gearbox will bring back some of those things that made Homeworld 1 awesome.

Not sure what everyone is complaining about Audio wise, but to each their own on that.

[quote=“KennyTheKlever, post:2, topic:120619, full:true”]
The question is whether or not eventually Homeworld Remastered will ever resemble the original. I’m not sure if this can be achieved through patches alone.[/quote]
Safe to say that the gameplay will never resemble the original game. Supposedly, many of the HW1 mechanics in Remastered were gutted due to time and resource constraints.

Even if fuel and formations were brought back, I still don’t think we will ever get the same dynamics of combat in Remastered since it uses HW2’s RNG system instead of a physics-based model like HW classic.

So far every indication is that GBX is in it for the long haul. I can still be proven wrong (hope not :wink: ) but that alone makes HW:R better than HW1 classic. It has far more potential than those that came before it. Stronger engine, better visuals, dedicated devs, best mod support ever, official mod tools for crying out loud.

It’s up to both us and GBX to see that potential realized. You are welcome to do ‘told you so’ if GBX drops HW support after the 2nd patch since that’s all the originals ever got.

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-Fighters need to be competitive with HW2 equals
-Corvettes need to recognize they have limited firing arcs
-Frigates need a major HP increase (all 4 factions)
-Destroyers and BCs need a dps nerf (all 4 factions)

annnnd that’s about it for me. While proper working formations would be nice the fact they get into the formations at all in the first place is awesome for me.

If it takes them months to get formations working because of a rewrite I’d accept waiting so long as the balance changes above were made. (That and any crash fixes and debilitating bugs)

Changing the healing system for repair corvs and support frigs is also I can handle waiting on so long as they’re smarter about fixing all the ships they’re assigned to and can “dock faster”

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I understand that original HW2 was messed up at launch. But it’s not a good excuse to mess up again! Remastering a game is about updating A/V, fixing bugs and preserving original gameplay. Out of these three things, Gearbox did only one! The game absolutely shouldn’t be released in this state.

I preordered it, because I decided to trust old Relic devs. The game is a huge disappointment for me, and I would have returned the game if I could.

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The game isn’t so messed up that it is not unplayable. It has it’s bugs, but it is an ongoing project, that they have stated many times already will continue to get worked on. Already I’ve found this game much more enjoyable than 1 and 2 combined.

The amount of support we have as a player base is staggering, this has never happened before, relic never had much time to support 1 and 2, as they were already working on other games when the first game came out, this kind of balancing didn’t happen before. If you were to return the game, it would be your loss. The knee jerk reactions are hysterical, no it doesn’t play exactly like Homeworld 1 did, it was never going to, that’s why they included the classics…

I’ve said it before, Remastering a project can mean many things, taking and changing what you would have wanted to change improve what you want to improve. Sometimes that can mean little subtle changes or, very large changes. There is no one set definition for a “Remaster” Remastering a game is about whatever the developers decides to change/fix/improve etc. If you pre-ordered the game because you decided to trust the old relic devs, then understand they ultimately made Homeworld 2, and ultimately decided that some of the mechanics in Homeworld 1 were pointless such as fuel, etc. If you saw the gameplay video on the 26th, It would have been best if you assumed that’s what you were buying, taking into account that the game is still in on going development even after its initial release.

My suggestion to you is, If you’re that unhappy with the game, put it down for awhile keep checking in on it until perhaps it evolves to a point where you might be satisfied. I had to do that with Elite: Dangerous. I bought it because I saw the game design document, and found that it was really an empty version of that game design document, so I put it away and won’t touch it again until the game changes to where I’m content in playing it. if that never happens so be it.

I can’t imagine why people aren’t enjoying themselves in Homeworld:RM as it is even now, I’m loving the game, and will continue to provide feedback and hopefully some of it gets looked at. At least here, the developers listen to their community, and support them.

Keep in mind, I understand the complaints about formations, I want them to work the way they used to as well, but it’s not going to stop me from enjoying the game. The visuals, the sounds, the music, and the gameplay, I still find very fun and even refreshing. For me the biggest issue right now, the most imperative issue, is to fix the capital ship pathing, and ship pathing in general. Sometimes they get messed up and Homeworld 1 maps are unbearable due to this, I can only play on Hyperspace arena, otherwise my capital ship captains just haven’t a clue of what they are doing.

These are bugs however, and unlike before, no thanks to a certain company, they will actually get fixed, because the developers have been given the leverage they need to support the game. That’s one of the most important things here, Homeworld now has ongoing support, which is a massive boon for us.

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Okay, time to stop talking about each other.

Bah sorry, I should just stay in the Modding area. Logic fails really hard out here. [taking a big step back]

This is the biggest problem I have with this game.

I’m a consumer. I’m not here to betatest their ■■■■. I understand multiplayer is a beta, because it would be nearly impossible for such a small team to play enough matches to balance everything. What I don’t understand is why Gearbox expects me to find bugs in their stupid game and report them through some support forms. I’m not going to bother, that’s what people are HIRED and PAYED FOR. At least that’s what a respectable studio would do.

I’m happy that you, and quite a lot of other people, are enjoying this game. I played it for about 10 hours, and to be honest, I kinda liked it too. The thing is, the overall experience is worse than original Homeworld. They can support the community and release as many patches as they won’t, but I’m not buying that. This game should have been released half a year later.

I already put down HW:R. I’ll probably come back to it later to see if it got better. Maybe I’ll get some value of it in the future, but as of now, buying this game was a mistake in my opinion.

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I’ve read your post before it was deleted.

  1. HW1 and 2 classic are not “remasters”. They are almost 1:1 original versions. Almost, because of a couple small changes and gutted multiplayer. No use of lossless audio or any other uncompressed assets. They didn’t even add widescreen support.
  2. I don’t even know what the hell you mean about this trusting Relic devs.

Basically, what I meant when I said “I decided to trust old Relic devs” is that I watched gameplay videos with commentary and interviews with them, and I thought “Hey, these people seem to know, and like what they’re doing. I’ll preorder!”.

Yeah, that was a bad idea.

They don’t expect you to do anything for them. The support forum is there for people who have issues with the game to report them, It’s your choice on whether or not you want to try and at least provide feedback. Honestly if you’re that upset about the HW1/HW2 not working with multiplayer, I still have my Homeworld 1 and 2 and Cataclysm CD and can play them just fine on gameranger/ hamachi. That hasn’t changed just because you can get them on steam.

Yes the game still needs some work, you’d be surprised at how quickly a dev team can get moving on fixing things, the first patch was already a great step. Theres lots of balancing required, and hopefully a few features like formations get rectified, I am pretty sure it’s quite possible for that to happen.

Beyond that we’ll just have to agree to disagree, the Homeworld RM is a far better experience in my book, 4 races, tons of maps, 2 campaigns, better sounds/voices/graphics/music. Less bugs yes I said it, than the original. Ultimately the original devs had a lot of input on this, and whether you like it or not this is what the original devs want, along with gearbox. They know what they are doing.

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By current gaming definition of “ramasterd” IS just a update to a new platform/os with normally patch integration, with optional Resolution and/or expansion integration.
HWR download has that in the supplied classics, Now the new HWR has new MP and the new integration and update of all of the graphic and sound assets. This is far beyond a Remaster by current definition, but far short of a remake.

I was commenting on your confusing text from your posts, your clarification makes much more sense. but still just a singular opinion. as the game is there’s to do with as they want and not beholden to your wants and needs. I really can’t say anything more on the subject. so bye bye.