HW1 Corvette Megathread

General behavior:

YOU BROKE IT GEARBOX FIX IIT FIX IIIIIT

HW1 corvettes strafed around at a fair distance and were supreme fighter killers and decent against everything else. These HW2 corvettes are acting like idiots and are trying to rush into the battle where they can die without doing much. Their accuracy now leaves much to be desired and they feel nerfed to the ground.

Light corvettes are… slightly less useless than they used to be. Could still use a cost decrease.

Heavy corvettes: Act like idiots. Think that they’re homeworld 2 gunships; I’ve got news for them: they aren’t. More than any other corvette need the old corvette behavior.

Multigun corvettes: Taiidan one especially feels nerfed, but at least the kushan one is less in need of the hw1 corvette behavior than the heavy and light ones are.

Minelayer: a;lskdjfklasdklf;jlasjdf;ljasd;lfjaasdfjaksld;f Gearbox fix mines. That is all.

Repair Corvette: Actually seems decent. Shouldn’t be selected with combat ships though, same with the support frigate. A drag selected heal command should act as auto-heal BTW, it’s dissapointing that it isn’t.

Salvage Corvette: The accuracy system when ion cannons are involved makes it feel kinda OP. Increase ion cannon accuracy vs salvage corvettes please?

I feel like the HW1 corvettes are a little weak in this game, not only damage wise but formation wise. We used to use the term 1 wall 2 wall or 3 wall cause wall formation was the best formation to have with the corvettes. Following by haveing a Support frigate to repair the wall. Now corvettes get out of wall formation during battle and your support frigate can only repair one unit at a time. I hope you do put back some of the old hw1 feel to the game.

They have completely destroyed one of the most used tactics in hw1 which was the corv wall… There is virtually no point in building corvettes with any real purpose anymore, one of a WHOLE list of things they have ruined, it isn’t hw1 anymore that’s for sure.

Yep, this needs fixing ASAP…I want my HW1 corvettes to work as well as other HW2 corvettes…at the moment they’re borderline useless.

Vaygr laser corvettes could also benifet from the same fixes…they think they’re bombers, I’ve got news for them: they aren’t, it takes forever for them be in position to fire at their target again, by that time, the corvettes are either dead or the target is not there anymore.

Stupid corvettes have a detrimental effect on balance.

1 Like

This has never been HW1 or HW2, its a melding of both as a new game. Just because you can’t use an ancient technique from a past game doesn’t mean the game is bad or that corvettes are useless. Arguably some of them may not be cost effective at the moment but I have found use for the repair, salvage and multi-gun corvettes fine in the current game.

No ritchzap, the corvettes ARE useless.

I’m not talking about exploiting formations and special tactics that don’t work anymore.
It’s that HW1 corvettes simply are useless, they don’t face their targets they try to circle around and strafe them, something they simply can’t do effectively, so they fire infrequently due to their forward facing weapons and with the miss rate they have makes them utterly ineffective in combat.

Even Multi-guns aren’t that good as they were supposed to have 180 degree coverage, it’s pretty much cut in half now.

This result in hiigaran and vaygr dominating games due to the lack of effective anti-fighter options.

1 Like

So what we’re saying is…the Kushan and Taiidan need some re-balancing?
couldn’t agree more sir! And I agree, updated AI for more of and old-style movement would be one way to improve their functionality in this modern era.

The beta is real…the beta is so real right now. But at least we knew that going in. If only I could get the game to work regularly and load into mplayer matches.

I never said the corvettes were fine, I said they weren’t cost effective. I don’t think you’re going to get corvette walls and movement like you did in HW1, so it’s just going to mean a rebalancing of the corvettes stats. This could be in the form of better tracking and coverage from the gun, increased accuracy, increased damage etc… There are lots of ways to bring the corvettes back to being useful without making them carbon copies of the original HW1 corvettes.

Better tracking: fixed by making them face forward
Coverage: when facing forward they have good coverage

At the moment they have less than half their coverage in actual combat, their firepower is thus significantly weakened.

They don’t need to be carbon copies but they do need to face fowards, if HW1 destroyers broadsided like HW2 destroyers they’d effectively loose one of their ion cannons, the other would have its coverage reduced by two thirds, and the two kinetic cannons would have their coverage reduced by 50%. In short it would be a total disaster.

Well that’s what’s happened to corvettes…they’ve lost half their guns, the other half has 50% reduced coverage.
considering you pay more for HW1 corvettes yet they only use 25% of their guns…It’s utterly pathetic.

All easily solved by giving them a better unit AI… Fortunately defenders currently have a behaviour that’s similar to HW1 corvettes, they might not stick in formation but they do attempt to face their targets and encircle them.
All that blackbird and gearbox need to do is apply that behaviour to corvettes.

1 Like

Agreed, this is an AI problem that should be easily fixable. If the corvettes would actually hold their formation and point their guns toward the enemy, HW1 'vettes would have plenty of firepower. Instead they spend most of the battle spinning around and not really facing the enemy, making them unable to fire.

I disagree with the overall assessment here.

I haven’t done any thorough studies yet (not enough games under my belt yet), but HW1 light corvettes seem to do the trick pretty well against most strike craft, even lance fighters (sure, the lance fighters get one good pass, but then the light corvettes cut them to ribbons). Laser corvettes are a problem because there’s no easy way to get rid of them – assault frigates do fairly well against corvettes in general (much better than light corvettes do!), but laser corvettes ravage assault frigates. Defenders can take out laser corvettes but can’t pursue them, meaning they will simply attack somewhere else.

I haven’t tried heavy corvettes or multigun corvettes yet, simply because light corvettes do the job so well.

A related issue is that HW1 fighters aren’t really worth getting. Combat happens too quickly for you to selectively dock them; as a result, you will lose most fights by attrition.

Some other issues to keep in mind:

  • HW1 races don’t have access to carriers or resource controllers as soon as the HW2 races, making the HW1 races somewhat less mobile early on. At the same time, HW1 races don’t have to bother building or juggling modules; they have access to all factories automatically AND hyperspace capability from the get-go.
  • HW1 races automatically have access to repair corvettes via the corvette research tree, which means: if you go corvettes (and you will, because fighters aren’t really an option) you can support your destroyers and heavy cruisers with repair corvettes easily.
  • HW1 races don’t have passive upgrades for their ships (movement and armor); I’m not sure if this makes a difference or not in the long run (too many variables; not enough games).

For a first pass to address some of the above issues, here are my suggestions:

  • Take a careful look at corvette flight patterns, fire arcs, turret rotation speed; if necessary, optimize these statistics so corvettes are bringing their DPS to bear on targets as efficiently as possible.

  • If heavy corvettes are not worth it compared to light corvettes, I recommend changing them to make them slightly better against other corvettes (armor penetration somewhere between where they currently are and pulsar corvettes)

  • Consider buffing Defender armor penetration slightly to make sure they work well enough against corvettes.

  • Light corvette penetration should be higher than multigun corvette penetration to give light corvettes a role as raiders if multigun corvettes are on the scene.

  • Hypothetically:

  • Hiigaran Gunship penetration: 100% against strike craft, 5% against everything else

  • Hiigaran Pulsar Gunship penetration: 100% against corvettes and strike craft, 50% against frigates, etc.

  • Light Corvette: 100% against strike craft, 25% against corvettes, 10% against frigates

  • Heavy Corvette: 100% against strike craft, 50% against corvettes, 25% against frigates

  • Multigun Corvette: 100% against strike craft 10% against corvettes, 5% against frigates

Naturally, the above values are purely speculative; I haven’t crunched the numbers, but you get the idea. Something liek that would solve any issues players are having with corvettes.

If necessary:

  • Dramatically beef up HW1 race DPS-per-RU and health-per-RU for fighters, either by increasing damage and health, reducing RU cost, or both
  • Add passive research to the HW1 race research trees (movement and armor) to bring them up to par against their Homeworld 2 counterparts

A better understanding of how effective corvettes should be and how they actually are is if you compare how gunships perform vs HW1 corvettes, and compared to that light corvettes are lacking especially when it comes to cost.

Well you’re wrong.

It’s an illusion, they just perform badly as opposed to abysmally, Light corvettes have a single weak turret that lacks the power and coverage of a single gunship turret (they have two) and they cost more individually than gunships. it might be able to broadside as the AI tries to do, but the hard facts are they’re lacking.

Their damage is not the issue, it’s their aiming…they can’t even hit a stationary target because they don’t point their guns towards the target, test it…they will shoot once in a blue moon and then miss. Multi-guns loose half their guns and can’t track well since they move out of range of the side they’re aiming with.

All these issues are simply fixed by making heavy and multi-gun corvettes face forwards…and making light vettes cheaper.

I haven’t done a cost comparison yet, but if a single HW1 corvette does not perform comparably to a squadron of three or four HW2 corvettes of the same class, then it should cost 1/3 to 1/4 of that squadron (or less, to compensate for attrition). Same with fighters, but that’s a different thread.

If you’re right about their flight behavior (and I see no reason to think that you’re not), then something definitely needs to be done.

That said, there is hope! On a whim, I ordered a bunch of corvettes to attack a subsystem; they did, and the end result was much like their behavior in the original HW: point their nose towards the target and strafe.

So the behavior is already coded; let’s see what they do with it.

Exactly, I just tried the the HW1 Corvettes, light heavy and multi laser and have to say they do no deliver dps against other corvettes of HW2… They just get rekt to oblivion and then u lost a ton of resources.

No fix or even an address of “oops we’re sorry we actually didn’t do any playtesting, just compared all the stats of corvettes and it seemed to work”.

Corvettes unlike gunships need to face forwards…

You know, this would be a lot easier to take and accept as a position – and in fact, the position I would advocate – if the beta wasn’t also the real campaign system, for both HW1 and HW2.

If the behavior of the ships under your command was the same in the campaign as it was when it was released, the painful beta nature of the multiplayer, given that we knew that was going to be the case upfront, would be easy to swallow. Unfortunately for Gearbox, all the broken bits that are so obviously beta in Multiplayer are still obviously beta for both Campaigns.

There is a definite and unfortunate linkage between what is and was announced as beta and what they sold as a coherent and complete set of remastered Campaigns. That can’t be waived off, as much as we might like it to be, by saying “beta is beta.”

Multiplayer is beta. Campaign is supposed to be release – but we still have these exact same problems.

1 Like

We better. I won’t stand for anything less.

Tested after patch…STILL BROKEN.

Really a modder managed to fix it…but I’d like to be able to use corvettes in multiplayer.

You can’t balance HW units until you fix formations;

As long as this happens you’re dropping so much DPS.

20 seconds in classic, 54 seconds in the remaster, same targets, same ships – the only difference, broken formations.

2 Likes

You don’t need to fix formations, they just need to point their front towards their target and circle round, not their sides like gunships and missile vettes.

There’s no dodging bullets in the hw2 engine, bullets miss on their own, so tactics and formations aren’t the problem.
It’s an angle of fire issue, that’s all.