HW1 Races Jump Spamming: Hilarious but Unbalanced

So, I’m loving this game, especially the ability to play as the Kushan/Taiidan against the Hiigarans/Vaygr. But holy cow, is the jump spamming overpowered. Flagship under attack? Jump it out of there! Resource operations getting hit? Jump in the cavalry! Heavy cruiser out of position? No problem, jump it to the position it needs to be! Etc, etc. This is absolutely friggin’ hilarious to use, but I recognize that it’s severely unbalanced and needs a nerf of some kind. Maybe apply a cooldown period between jumps, or make the players research jump drives for each type: Frigate Jump Drive, Destroyer Jump Drive, Heavy Cruiser Jump Drive, and so on. I’m sure others have better ideas than I, but I just wanted to throw it out there: please nerf the HW1 races’ jump spamming!

HW2 gravwells are there for a reason.

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HW1 races jumps cost 50% more resources at max ranges… And a lot of stuff is bugged/broken/gimped about it on top of that.

I jumped a heavy cruiser earlier and… I dunno, it must have been stuck downloading content because I never saw it again

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Gravity wells. Gravity wells everywhere!

I can fix your problem: Gravity wells.

Gravity wells - and you will annoy HW1 races as hell…

The HW1 races gravity well generator doubles as a hyperspace inhibitor now. FYI

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Can you explain? All I noticed is that HW1 races gravite well generator only affects strike crafts and corvettes and don’t prevent hyper spacing…
Edit: it affects hyper spacing, tested…

To be fair it was a valid tactic in HW, if you could afford it. Problem with HW1 ships in multi is how ludicrously expensive it is compared to HW2 ships.

The base cost for hyperspacing Kushan/Taiidan units for each ship class is the same as Hiigaran. The difference is that at long ranges, Kushan/Taiidan hyperspace cost reaches a higher cap - 800 to hyperspace a Hiigaran Destroyer 27.5 km away, 1200 to hyperspace a Kushan/Taiidan Destroyer at the same distance. Bear in mind too that Hiigaran has access to two levels of research that further reduce hyperspacing cost down to 60% of the original price (past the base cost and distance).

Vagyr have the highest base costs for hyperspacing however the price ceiling caps at a cost smaller than Kushan/Taiidan does at long ranges. At certain distances, some of the costs overlap with unupgraded Hiigaran prices making them just as efficient in RU per kilometre.
Also note that they have access to hyperspace gates which potentially save far more RU than any other race as they allow ships to hyperspace for free and allow any ships up to destroyer size to hyperspace (even strikecraft and allied ships).

As to the problem of defensive jump spamming, I would probably recommend increasing the base hyperspace cost for each for some of the ship classes without changing the maximum ceiling cap cost. This solution wouldn’t break away from HW1’s tech tree or game mechanics. 500 RU base cost to jump the Kushan/Taiidan mothership for example, may be a little too good.

Don’t forget about Vaygr gates. After the initial investment they let you hyperspace anything destroyer or smaller for free.

Did a 2v2 with a friend where we set up a network of gates between my main base, her base, and my expansion. Able to instantly react whenever the AI threw something weird at us. And don’t forget ally can use them too. There goes the extra cost of using a HW1 race.

And better yet you can set them as an rally object to let your production ships send new ships tot he front line by proxy.

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Destroyers actually fits inside Vaygr jumpgates? o.o

I think I recalled frigates fitting in them but destroyers? Whoah.

Yup, even in HW2 classic they did. Anything that can’t build their own hyperspace module could.

? The Hiigarians do NOT have a research that reduces hyper spacing down to 60% of original price for all ships. That only works for the MotherShip.

Easy mistake to make. I had to test it out in game to know for sure whether it effected all of my ships, or just my MS.

haven’t tested it in the remastered collection but i do have the original version and i did an experiment that proved the cost save was applied to all ships, i had a full battle fleet (4 carriers, 3 bc, 5 DD, and 21 frigates) grouped i started researching the Hyper Space Jump saving tier one and when the research was about to be completed i selected the battlefleet and activated the HSJ gizmo (pressed the J key) and i was able to see the net cost of the group jump was reduced the moment the HSJ saving research was completed

Wrong. Clearly your tests were flawed.

The price reduction applies to all Hiigaran units. As a side note, whether or not a ship hyperspaces with the aid of a hyperspace module from a mothership, carrier or shipyard is irrelevant to the cost.

Here is how hyperspacing cost is calculated - each ship class (frigate, destroyer, cruiser and so on) has a minimum and maximum cost and both of these costs correspond to an inner and outer radius unique to that ship class. Costs and radii differ for each race too.

From 0 km to the inner radius, the minimum cost applies for all distances.
From the inner radius to the outer radius, the cost scales linearly from minimum to maximum distances.
From the outer radius to infinity, the maximum cost applies for all distances.

Here are some examples for Hiigaran ships:

  • 200 for Frigates within a radius of 10 km scaling linearly up to 500 for distances at or over a radius of 25 km.
  • 400 for Destroyers within a radius of 10 km scaling linearly up to 800 for distances at or over a radius of 20 km.
  • 500 for Battlecruisers within a radius of 12.5 km scaling linearly up to 1000 for distances at or over a radius of 25 km.

The Hiigaran hyperspace research upgrades reduce the cost by 20% for level 1 and an extra 25% for level 2 but the cost cannot be reduced below the minimum price. These upgrades stack multiplicatively.

One way to represent this mathematically is:
(1 * 0.8 * 0.75 = 0.6 ) or (Base cost * 80% * 75% = 60% of the original unupgraded cost).

Here are some examples showing the research upgrades in effect.
The minimum/base cost to hyperspace a Hiigaran frigate is 200 RUs.
Hyperspacing to a distance of 25 km will cost:

  • 500 with no upgrades
  • 400 at level 1 hyperspace research (500 * 0.8 = 400)
  • 300 at level 2 hyperspace research (500 * 0.8 * 0.75 = 300 and 500 * 0.6 = 300)

Hyperspacing to a distance of 15 km will cost:

  • 300 with no upgrades
  • 240 at level 1 hyperspace research (300 * 0.8 = 240)
  • 200 at level 2 hyperspace research (300 * 0.8 * 0.75 ≠ 200 and 300 * 0.6 ≠ 200)

The 15 km example highlights how research cannot reduce the hyperspacing cost below the minimum/base cost (200 for a Hiig frig) as 60% of 300 is actually 180.

Anyway, I stipulated this correctly (granted not as elaborate) when I said:

Easy mistake to make. You probably only recorded the costs for ships hyperspacing within the same inner radius regardless of research.

Okay, to be clear, researching the Hiigarian 60% cost Hyperspace = the maximum value doesn’t change, but the ranger before you reach maximum costs is increased.

Is that correct?

Thank you

That would explain why the maximum range value never seemed to decrease during my testing (back in the day).

Yep.

Here it is again in graph form for the Hiigaran Frigates for those who prefer visual aids better:

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Thank you for setting me straight on this!