HW2R opinion, less fun than HW1R, reasons

Hi,
For what I am seeing I enjoyed more HW1R than HW2R, way more. I am thinking why could it be and found several reasons. The first one is that though had HW1 myriads of fighters and corvettes were that were annoying to manage, it was more relaxing this way because if you lost 10 fighters it was just normal, just lost 10 from 70, no problem, just rebuild. However in HW2R, though I love those groups, if you lose a squad or two its almost a disaster. Because of this I would recommend to increase the number of fighters and corvettes squads and, of course, modify the campaign a bit for it.

There is also a second thing which is even more important. I have observed that in HW2R ships are made from wet cardboard. They die fast, they die extremely fast. All of them, fighters, corvettes, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, everything! This make the the strategy not count almost at all and marine frigates are less than useless. You can pass the campaign of HW2, not because you used the strategy, but because you have a ton of raw firepower power that smashed every small group of ships, and if not, you were the one smashed. Battles are very short and usually end with frigates being exterminated (yours and enemy’s ones) in matter of seconds by destroyers. They are just meat shields, and doesn’t matter at all if you build ion, torpedo or flak or whatever. The battles, which are the fun, are very short and rely too much in firepower and destroyers… And the traveling, which is boring, lasts very long.

So I think that the problem is that ships have too much attack power or too low armor or a combination of these. I will analyze it now:

A few stats:
HW1 interceptor - armor: 160 - firepower: 26 - firepower/armor rate = 16%
HW2 interceptor - armor: 150 - firepower: 36 - firepower/armor rate = 24%

In 1v1 against their same unit, HW2 interceptors will a bit faster than HW1, yet you can only have 14 of these while you can have 70 in HW1. This means that you will lose your squads waaaaay faster in HW2.

HW1 ion frigate - armor: 15k - firepower: 138 - firepower/armor rate = 9%0
HW2 ion frigate - armor: 20k - firepower: 315 - firepower/armor rate = 15%0 (lvl 2 upgrade)

This means that HW2 ion frigates against themselves will dead almost twice as fast. If it was level 1 its even faster death. Once they engage, they are dead, you cant even retire or support them. It will kill its enemy, for sure, but will die too, for sure too.

HW1 destroyer - armor: 44k - firepower: 347 - firepower/armor rate = 8%0
HW2 destroyer - armor: 110k - firepower: 1k - firepower/armor rate = 9%0 (lvl 2 upgrade)

This means that destroyers against themselves will take almost the same time to kill each other in HW1 as HW2. But if you see the firepower values, one es 347 and the other is 1k, thats thrice as much in HW2, while the armor of frigates is “almost” (15k vs 20k) the same. This means that a frigate against a destroyer will die three times as fast in HW2. No chance to anything. Once the missiles are away the frigate is dead. One shoot kill.

And so on. I didn’t compare the rest, corvettes against fighters/frigates but the destroyer vs frigate thing is enough to completely break the game. Once you get a destroyer or are against a destroyer frigates doesn’t matter at all, no tactic value, not even for meat shields.

The solution would be lowering the armor and attack power of the destroyers to levels of HW1 or similar. And for the fighter thing would be increasing the number of squadrons being able to build and also add them a BIT of armor. However to balance it correctly corvette and the rest of frigates should be compared too. I’m thinking in a spreadsheet right now to solve all these things but its a vague idea…

I hope that devs will do something about this.

Thanks for reading

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I agree, we need to get a damage nerf in almost every ship, especially capital ships.

HW2 and HW1 are totally different games. HW2 is about composition strategy, HW1 is also a game of compositions, but it’s about custom strike group squadron compositions. So in HW1, you could have 20 interceptors in a squadron, or you could have 70 in a squadron, or you could have 10 int/10 bombers/5 corvettes or literally any combination of any units in the game. In HW 2, your squadrons are set in stone, you can select 2 squadrons at once, but they won’t move as one squadron ever. I suppose formations being added to HW2 was supposed to sort of add this functionality in, but it doesn’t because it’s also broken over here too. They don’t hold formation once they attack, so even though you’re supposed to be able to select 5 squadrons and have those squadrons form a formation, they will not hold it and they don’t even throttle speed to stay together. It’s a bit of a mess.

Since strike groups are broken in HW1R, it takes an eternity for ships to explode. In Classic, they focus fire and hold formation and blow up ships about as quick as the HW2 squadrons.

What you’re seeing here is the impact of the Strike Formation bug.

In HW1, you could grab 10 bombers and put them in claw formation, they would hold this formation the entire time, they’d make attack runs and shoot 30-40 bombs a pass all at the same time for an amazing ALPHA. In HW1R you grab those same 10 bombers, put them in claw formation and issue an attack order and they go bananas and attack one at a time, or make passes without even attacking and flip U-turns before deploying a single bomb.

No damage nerfs are necessary, they just need to fix strike group formations and you’ll see the efficiency of your fighters improve dramatically in HW1R. It’s not about zerging, it’s about having proper strike group compositions and good micro.

In HW2, if you lose a fighter in a squadron and dock the squadron, the fighters you lost are replenished for free also. In HW1, you can dock your fighters on the resource controller, support frigates, carriers and the mothership for repairs as well as having repair corvettes tethered to your destroyers/capital class/frigate class ships.

HW1 requires better micro as a result, but the ships aren’t weaker, they are just broken since their strike formations [which are supposed to allow you to make custom squadrons] do not work.

The end result in HW1R with the broken strike formations = 70 defenders. They are the only strike craft that moves together since their mobility is low.

There is a tremendous amount of strategy in HW1C with strike group compositions and formations, none of that works since strike groups are broken so everything takes 10 years to destroy. Strike groups are broken for the A.I. as well as the player, so that’s what makes it feel like you’re invincible.

This actually removes almost ALL of the strategy in HW1. I don’t see why or how nerfing HW2 ships fixes this problem, it just destroys HW2 also.

If you’re having trouble keeping ships alive in HW2, it’s not because they are made of glass, or that they do too much damage, it’s because your positioning/microing/compositions are weaker than your opponent. That’s like, the definition of strategy.

If you have an equal fleet to mine, and we bandbox attack – it’s going to be a draw, but if I micro and dock and reposition my fleet, I will win with minimal casualties. That’s strategy, and putting an equal force against and equal force and expecting them not to wreck each other is just silly, because that’s exactly what should happen unless you micro.

Now if you’re talking HW1 races vs HW2 races in Multi-player – that’s a totally different thing and I imagine will get balanced separately or by cost and unit cap.

But as for the Single Player campaigns – nah, HW1R is just broken right now since HW1’s core gameplay revolves around Strike Formations that don’t work at all right now.

Strike Formations are also supposed to work for frigates and capital class ships too – but obviously again, it just doesn’t work in this build.

So while you can compare units from HW2 to HW1, if you’re not talking about MP there is no valid comparison to make. There is no basis of relevance between the two – so Destroyers having more damage and the same armor in HW2 when compared to HW1, this has no relevance unless an HW1 destroyer goes up against an HW2 destroyer.

In HW1, destroyers would take an eternity to kill each other, but the end result is identical. The point is, you’re supposed to use strategy and hit those destroyers with Bombers or Ion Canon Frigates and not put your destroyer vs their destroyer. If you do this, and strike groups work as intended, the destroyer can be vanquished extremely quickly with the right unit response. Employing such a strategy is STRATEGIC.

Unfortunately since it’s broken, you can’t actually do this in HW1 so it’s causing this discrepancy that you see before you.

Go play HW1 Classic and tell me how you feel after.

In HW2, you should be clearing their capital ships before yours engage or you should focus their capital ship when it’s attacking something different.

[P.S. HW1 classic works perfectly fine at 1080p, you do need to change the resolution via registry editor, and then you have to add the command line argument /triple to the shortcut or the interface will be broken.]

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