Hyperspace costs

At times I wonder if hyperspace isn’t too expensive. Obviously it’s a powerful ability to jump across the map, and giving it a noticable RU cost isn’t a terrible idea, but I frequently would like to be able to jump a ship away from battle early and repair it. It’s a nice micro idea to me, you have to judge just how close you can cut it to get the most out of a ship without letting it die. The problem(aside from the speed at which ships die) is that even the minimum cost to jump a frigate is pretty comparable to the cost to build that ship in the first place. Sure, you avoid the build time, but considering you need to keep repair ships around to take real advantage of this in the first place, it still seems expensive enough to obviate the tactic unless you’re really swimming in RUs.

But I don’t multiplay as much as most people around here. Any thoughts from you?

I feel that it is generally fine at the moment although there could be some tweaks made to some specific ship classes of some races.

While the Vagyr do get hyperspace gates, I feel this isn’t a sufficient offset for their very high base costs in hyperspacing ships normally.

Hiigaran have the cheapest hyperspacing costs and they get even cheaper when the appropriate upgrades have been researched (down to 60% of the price) - a lot of players pick Hiig on the basis of their efficient hyperspacing. I’m sure at one point you’ve experienced the frustration of torpedo frigate hyperspace harass on your resource patch when you least expect it.

Kushan/Taiidan have the advantage of innate hyperspacing for every frigate-sized ship and above at the cost of having the highest price caps on their jumps.

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Ursa_Major summed it up perfectly!

Couple of interesting things:

-The Vagyr hyperspace gates get progressively more useful the larger the map gets. Custom HUGE maps see the hyperspace gates become very useful.

-The Hiigarian hyperspace cost reduction research gets progressively LESS useful the larger the maps get. This is because the max cost never changes, only the range is extended before you reach max cost. The bigger the map, the more likely you reach that max cost regardless of research.

I don’t feel that the Vaygr having HS gates comes close to competing with how cheap Hiigaran ships can HS with the appropriate upgrades.

I’m all for asymmetrical gameplay but there has to be a way of balancing the field. This along with the other troubles the Vaygr have shows they got the short end of the stick.

Yeah.

The main reason Vagyr barely use hyperspace gates is that they require too much time and finesse to setup in addition to being too “positionally” limited. Hyperspacing is often needed at a moment’s notice to be effective and gates don’t really provide this level of expediency.

Since the gates are platforms, they can only be issued with one-move order only which means you cannot sneak them into an enemy’s flank since you cannot tell them to go around the enemy’s line of sight.
Additionally, this also means you cannot reposition exit gates once you have the need for a new hyperspace target/destination.

I actually advocate that Vaygr should be allowed to reposition hyperspace gate platforms as much as a player wants as long as it is not actively linked with another gate. Remember that these gates are really weak and it does cost 1000 RU to setup a link.

I’m in agreement that Vaygr hyperspacing needs to be looked at. My thoughts are that either the tech or gates need to be a bit cheaper, the gates should be tougher and they need to get to their destination faster to be a more attractive play option.

Discuss!

On custom super large maps, the Vagyr gates work great! But the vanilla maps are simply too small to bother with them. Also, since BCs are such an important part of any fleet, the Vagyr gates become less useful.

I’d seriously consider rethinking the one-shot movement of Vaygr hyperspace gates and allow them to be moved as much as possible like any other ship. It can keep its current fragility and movement speed but allow itself to be moved around the rear/flank of an enemy for sneak attacks or where their defenses are weakest - strategies and tactics which you can really only do with normal hyperspacing right now and which gates lack.

Also, allow players to reposition gates after they have been linked. Simply make it so that moving a gate permanently breaks any existing hyperspace link that gate has requiring a player to reform a gate to use it again (spend another 1000 RU).

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This would be a step in the right direction. The gates should have more than a limited niche use in order to contend with the Hiigarans.

As is, I’ve used the Hyperspace Gates with great success, but only on the biggest vanilla maps (or huge custom maps). The smaller the map, the less useful the tech.

The Hiigarian hyperspace cost reduction research is best served on medium maps. Since it only extends the ‘cost benefit’ range before maxing hyperspace cost = the bigger the map, the more likely a jump reaches this hyperspace cost maximum anyway.

It is interesting to note how both races have a faction specific hyperspace advantage over the other, but map size can only benefit one at the expense of the other.

Richzap has been pushing a great idea! Make hyperspace costs for BCs ~X3-4 more than they already are. People are complaining that the end game revolves all around BCs and that frigates (and even Destroyers to a lesser extent) are too weak for their RU/Research costs.

Well, greatly increasing the BC hyperspace costs (and maybe a bit for Destroyers as well) would enhance the strategic niche for Frigates/Carriers. No more cheaply hyperspacing BCs all over the map hunting down your opponents. This would add a whole level to the Strategic aspect of the game, WITHOUT CHANGING ANY SHIP VALUES!

*As the game works now, hyperspacing 3 BCs costs FAR less than hyperspacing an equivalent combat power fleet of Frigates and Destroyers. FAR LESS! For example, 3 BCs using a long range jump at max cost, roughly equals 6 Frigates doing the same jump…hmmm, 3 BCs or 6 Frigates arriving at your base, which is the greater threat?

To make the point clearer, BCs (despite their incredible mass) provide players a means of hyperspacing extreme power for a very tiny cost (when compared to any other ship class).

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