I don't think we need a level cap increase

Bare with me on this, it’s gonna take a minute. In all three previous Borderlands games we had two level cap increases, and a third in BL2.

In TPS this was, IMO, this was the worst thing about an otherwise good game with great skill tree design. Because of the way the skill trees were designed, spending one point after unlocking the minor capstone (tier III) unlocked the next tier of skills, which was great when the cap was 50. By 70, you could have all three capstones. Sure, this wasn’t always optimal, so instead you could almost completely fill out two whole trees. You never missed out on the important game changing skills and were usually left with a lot of placeholders. Melee and elemental Athena builds, for example, could be hybridised and take the from the best both builds. Pure melee and pure elemental builds had access to everything they were lacking at 50 that made you think, and extra skills they didn’t even need.

BL2 was very different. Some skill trees were poorly designed, or had a number of bad skills. In that case, 72 points was reasonable, two capstones plus a minor. Still, you could be missing key skills or wasting points on placeholders. When the cap was increased to 80, I was excited. My already disgusting Maya build now had access to the few skills I was lacking, and the extra skill points allowed me to craft an entirely new build that was not possible before. That was fun in the beginning, but after a while I realised how much overkill it really was. I really didn’t need Life Tap on my SS build, I was virtually immortal against mobs and carrying new players through DigiPeak while keeping them alive during the whole gauntlet. I don’t like using the term OP, I shy away from the popular meta builds, but by level 80 I was a juggernaut even at OP10 and crushing the old OP8 meta. OP10 was actually easier!

In BL3, most characters have three good skill trees. The skill design in this game is impressive. There are very strong builds with only 48 points that still use placeholders. Could you imagine a Moze decked out in all three trees!? 50k+ shield, grenade spam, unlimited ammo, incendiary and splash and gun damage boosts for days. Imagine Amara with Ties That Bind and Avatar plus all of her melee skills and Blitz. Having more options is good and all, but more skill points ultimately means less variety. Right now I have two Moze builds, and three Amara builds. With two level cal increases, I’ll have one build and it’ll be like TPS all over again.

I like having to think before I allocate, that’s the whole point of theory crafting, but if we get too many skill points I fear that we’re going to see many powerful all rounder builds and less specialist builds, like we did in TPS and the last few months of BL2. Some people may like that, afterall being OP in a PvE game is fun and that’s the whole point, right? I hope that the popular builds a year from now are unique and not the generic one dimensional builds that became popular later in TPS, or for that matter that we’re already starting to see now. Grenades WOO!

TL;DR - More skill points = Less diverse builds, and less importance in careful theory crafting and metagaming.

17 Likes

You shut your worthless mouth. Lol jk. But in all seriousness I love being more OP with even more skills to choose from.

And judging from their data, a lot of people that play these games feel that way, which is why they’re not adding DLC characters, because people would rather come back and improve upon their favorite or current characters.

15 Likes

I like the 50 cap

I can still play well within my build and not steam roll everything

5 Likes

I could get behind this. Imo that was the biggest glaring flaw to Presequel (besides lack of content) was having access to all 3 caps.

However, since Gbx mentioned not making dlc characters and instead “adding to the mains”, what if they did raise the level cap but added more skills to the already established skill trees?

Not necessarily adding a new capstone to each tree, although new capstone should definitely be on the table for some trees(bc they fun yo!) but just adding maybe 10 more skills to each tree.

^^^I just like this idea as a more desirable alternative to the “4th skill tree” that was tossed around.

8 Likes

I just don’t like it that many of my level 50 gear will become redundant if they increase the level cap.

11 Likes

Completely agree. The level cap increase ruins build diversity which is a lot of the fun for these types of games. If you can just have everything, making builds becomes boring and uninteresting. Plus, if you farmed for hundreds of hours for specific Anointed versions of specific weapons, that all becomes useless for end game if they raise the cap. This was such a huge mistake with BL2’s most recent DLC. I hope they don’t do it again.

3 Likes

Well I don’t mind either way, but since level cap will be paid DLC for sure, you can just not buy it… just saying.

3 Likes

I don’t mind the inevitable increase. I think most of us know/ should know that a level cap increase will come. Me & my buddy was just talking about how we will eventually need to farm for higher level gear when the time comes and that’s fine, it’s Borderlands! It also keeps you coming back. If we stay 50 with the same gear then coming back for a few new loot items during a dlc would cut the games lifespan I think.

6 Likes

I think this could be an idea that works. I would only suggest a minor change. If a skill tree has two ‘capstones’ they should both be at the bottom of the tree (of course), and if one capstone is picked, the other should be blacked out to force players to pick one or the other. This way you cant end up with 2 capstone skills for minimal point investment.

5 Likes

An alternative to a level cap is them putting skill points as quest rewards sprinkled through DLC. With limited time legendaries coming out in this upcoming event and future ones a cap increase would make those pointless after all. Thoughts on my suggestion… Yes no maybe so!

6 Likes

I don’t think having 2 capstones would be a huge issue. I’ve seen some builds now where people don’t even use a capstone. It’s all player choice so let’s keep it that way.

2 Likes

Personally, I’d like to see it increased at least enough to get two capstones. Preferably without being pushed into a new difficulty.

3 Likes

having 2 capstones is fine with me too. Just not from the same tree. Essentially you would be able to spend half as many points if there was 2 capstones per tree.

2 Likes

It depends. If GB starts to add more skilltrees as the rumors suggest, more levels would be helpful too.

5 Likes

I think if they increase the level cap by 10 then they should expand the existing tree with some more skills. They also said that they plan on adding skill trees so that will help with the diversity.

Id like to see a level cap increases but with an additional skill tree, within reason.

Add even more diversity to builds but without maxing caps.

Are you saying new skill tree, like a fourth tree? Now that would be fun

We know more levels, more points, refind new gear is coming. So plan for it

I do like the idea of staying level 50 though. Even if I know it’s not going to happen.

we need level cap increase, more skills, better version of current items higher lvl etc, the game gets boring fast after you find perfect gear, when you will get to that point u will understand

4 Likes

I feel like it comes down to the character. Moze and Amara work quite well with the 48 points the game gives you (yes, it’s not 50) but honestly, Zane feels a bit incomplete atm and I think partially the reason for that is because there’s like 3 key skills that feel like you should always have them but you can only get 2 of them at a time.
I think that you think the way you do because Amara has a very synergetic skill tree where almost all of the stuff interacts with each other all the time but Zane just doesn’t have that.

3 Likes

I’m not max leveled on my Zane. But agree. Zane doesn’t feel like he synergies at all.