I don't understand Mayhem 4

I haven’t played the game since October due to work (or rather very little), but I was paying attention to the forum so Mayhem 4 is not a surprise.

What is a surprise, is the fact that my guns are worthless. It’s like playing with OP3 equipment on OP8 or even worse. I have to crit a simple Maliwan soldier 4 or 5 times to kill it. So I maybe I’m missing something? It’s mentioned that there are new legendary weapons, it’s like a new tier?

yep , mayhem 4 is killing diversity and ur build no longer work.

And yes theres some new legendary m4 exclusive on maliwan blacksite but not a new tier


I see. Thanks.


But why, though…

It’s mostly if you’ve got anointed super gear and M3 doesn’t cut it anymore


Basically (and just like the OP system before, it’s there because some players like the challenge). Similar to the OP system in BL2, it’s completely optional, so don’t sweat it if it limits the effectiveness of your build - just play at a level where your build works.


M4 just requires optimized gear, especially annointments, along with build synergy. Like you pretty much need annointed shield and grenade. I prefer M4 to M3 cause I don’t have to check the modifiers every single map I load into, and is balanced pretty nicely around the meta guns(excluding recursion lol). They could definitely make a lot more legendaries stronger so everyone isnt using brainstormer + maggie + cutsman on every build.


I was rolling through M3 without anointed super gear before they nerfed some of the mods on it. M4 is entirely doable in a number of builds. However there is a variance of skill or effort required if you aren’t killing everything in a matter of seconds. The issue is people thinking they have to use the same optimized builds that streamers do just to be viable…


@Adabiviak @halcyonfury89

I see, you need to completely “peak out” on M3 before even thinking about M4.

Makes sense, I’m not there yet.

Nah, M4 doesn’t have the negative qualifiers that the previous levels do - the enemies are just way tankier, so it’s… almost easier on the build?


funny is that moze still trying to figure out how to be viable and amara is like u give her mediocre item and still doing fine generally

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You need legendary gear with powerful anointments to have success in M4.

Nah, I jumped from TVHM (no Mayhem) straight to M4. It was a little difficult first, unanointed Hornet and fire Nemesis being my strongest weapons, but soon I got better ones. M4 isn’t really stingy with good gear.

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I don’t understand the complaint that it takes 5 shots to kill something in M4. Every time I read stuff on here I get more confused about what the community wants lol


I’ve torn through M3 and M4 with Moze with little issue on around 4-5 builds so far. Currently using one based around the blastmaster COM and the new Boomer SMG from the DLC. There’s a ton of optimization left to do in the way of annointments and stats on the COM and Boomer itself. However it can already handle M4 while killing armored enemies with fire.

Well, I said crit. I may add, with a sniper rifle. Since targets (in this case, a Maliwan soldier) are not stationary, it’s just annoying.

I hope you’re less confused now.

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Mayhem 4 is simply enemy health jacked up by 800-1000% but only 1 Mayhem mod active. What it ends up doing is affecting some things more than others so you can think of it like an asymmetric, game-wide debuff.

It takes longer to kill anything so kill-skills are affected more than other types of skills for example.

Weapons that have a high DPS but at the cost of high ammo usage also take a very big hit as the relative ammo usage to kill the average enemy skyrockets.

Likewise large damage per hit weapons suffer because the damage from the Overkill perk from your Guardian Rank is harder to build and maintain.

It kind of means you need to abandon how you want to play and have to start making your build and choosing your weapons based on overcoming the enemy health.

Not really. The new M4 only legendary weapons aren’t any more powerful than anything else for the most part (or any less). Some have red text abilities obviously aimed at bullet-sponge enemies (one has a debuff, some reload on kill, etc) but M4 kind of overpowers those abilities at the moment. they’re pretty much in the same boat as anything else you could find.

The Juliet’s Dazzle, the gun they gave away (Available as a drop from Aurelia Hammerlock) isn’t too shabby for the right builds but Vosk’s Deathgrip (from Troy) is pretty much a gimmick gun.

If they hadn’t put in M4 only gear I’d probably agree but as it stands I’d argue that ‘completely optional’ is perhaps a bit of a glib assessment considering how FOMO affects so many gamers these days.

No, it really doesn’t. If you want to be soloing group content in TVHM on M4 then yeah sure but it’s perfectly possible co clear most areas and kill most bosses with almost no anointments what so ever. Even then circles of Slaughter lose a lot of their bite and almost none of their loot if you just drop out of TVHM and go in normal mode (normal mode enemy health pools are significantly smaller than TVHM).

Some builds certainly need anointments even to just dabble in M4 (see my initial reply for some of the reasons why) but it’s not a generic truth.

That’s not really the case, not the buffing legendary part but the other bit. Popular doesn’t mean “only” or even “best”, it usually just means “easy to get”. People’s obsession with legendary items, as understandable as that is, is not doing them any favours in terms of M4 build diversity.

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Trash mobs on m4 with end game gear (legendaries, purples, preferred annointments etc. doesn’t really matter so long as they fit a build/playstyle) are honestly in a pretty good place. The inflation to their health has made them just tanky enough to not be one shotted by a good build so there’s a little more challenge. The problem with m4 to me is the inflation to some badasses health pools. Maliwan heavies were in a great place prior to m4 in my opinion. They were tanky, but had a weakness that could be exploited to be dealt with. But now their Achilles heel feels as invulnerable as the rest of them and they feel like a colossal chore, along with a lot of the triple health bar enemies. The balance is kinda just way too far in badasses favor at the moment I feel. They’ve stopped feeling like challenges and have become progress halting mini bosses.

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I put together a strat for how I run M4. I feel like people are trying to treat it like M1-M3. This was my response to not using some of the “normal guns” that people are using. I hope it helps. :blush:

i think its how different player base sees the game differently .
since amara outclass moze , their viable scaling start from melt everything at fast speed .
moze is like “i couldn’t kill anything with mediocre item” , their viable scaling start from killing things 1 by 1 at acceptable time to kill .

i lean toward the way how i describe moze , but i kinda switch to fl4k gamma burst build because gameplay is like a generic fps game

I’ve been enjoying mayhem 2 recently. Nice balance of loot and difficulty. I might go back to mayhem 3 or 4 though, depending on various things. Especially over time as my guardian rank improves and my looted gear will no doubt have some more shiny pieces.

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