I hate that lilith is made out to be a hero

Lilith should not be a hero in this game.
She is the reason Roland died
she is the reason jack was able to wake the warrior.
She caused far more damage than she prevented
She also tried killing other vault hunters
She’s not a good leader and is never around when you need her.
She let the crimson raiders become almost extinct.
She just gives Ava sanctuary when literally everyone else is more deserving of the leader role
Lilith is a huge Douche in my opinion
She should be the villain not the hero in this story.
How awesome would it have been to be able to kill lilith? EXPLOSIONS! AWESOME!


I think all that you listed there isn’t correct but to me it was what made Lilith who she was. Her personality. I could have seen her becoming a leader and for the most part she did in the bl2 dlc that they added. It was a great look.

My issue was how little she did through the this game and how she didn’t show any of her old quirks. Then at the end just randomly decides to charge at the moon.

As much as I love Handsome Jack and wish he had been the hero to restore order - there isn’t really a hero in the borderlands universes. It’s all about who does the least evil action.


You mean the way lilith let sanctuary get taken over by weak bandits and then destroys sanctuary because she is to weak to defend it?
Ya she’s a great leader lmfao
If sucking as a leader is what makes you great then she is at the top of her game lol

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Also what I listed was 100% her fault

Time and time again she’s shown that she isn’t a super-great leader. Indecisive in the Fight For Sanctuary DLC, then she finally does something at the end and gives that awkward pep talk after, heh. But then she’s back to her old self in BL3 where Ava/Tannis/Maya keep chiding her to do something. I think it’s just kinda to show she was more or less forced into it after Roland died and isn’t comfortable in that position. Probably a good XO but not the one ultimately making the big calls.


Overrun by militants isn’t exactly the same as weak bandits. Not to mention they were being plagued by an unidentified gas weapon that was turning people into plant hybrids. The DLC showed her at least learning what it takes to be a leader. Yes Sanctuary was destroyed but it saved people.

I never said the things that happened wasn’t her fault. But it at least made her human and even relatable to a point. That despite having cosmic powers she still made mistakes, had dorky moments and showed emotion.

3 had none of that at all. I’ll take Lilith making mistakes and showing progression any day over sitting on the sidelines before charging herself Ito a moon because she needs to be painted out as some hero.


She is a Mary Sue

Insufferable in BL2, obviously promoted here but less obnoxious if memory serves


No, she’s not. Jack shot Roland in the back like the coward he was. Lilith being there or not would have made no difference.

Definitely not willingly. She should have listened - although why Angel couldn’t have said “I’m a siren and Jack has me trapped here” when giving the warning about Lilith not going, I don’t know.

How so? When and where?

ONE other vault hunter - not her finest moment, as Brick reminded her.

She’s growing into a role that was forced on her because no-one else wanted the job. Field promotions can be messy. We also don’t know exactly what she’s doing when she’s not actually with you. I’d cut her a bit of slack on this one.

True - she admits that herself a couple of times.

Yeah, that didn’t make sense. “Killer, take over, and train Ava as best you can” would have been more appropriate in my view.

No. Don’t forget, very few of the vault hunters actually qualify as heroes - they’re all pretty much flawed in one way or another. It’s what makes them relatable - they’re not perfect, and neither are we.

Dahl military veterans with a bioweapon for which there was initially literally no defence. Even Roland would have had a hard time with that.


Zane is a hired gun, so your right there.

I think you mean like the sneaky Hyperion ninja he was. :yum:

But yeah you’re accurate on everything else. She wasn’t perfect but a relatable character isn’t supposed to be perfect. I didn’t like her but she is a well written character. I miss her dorkiness from 2 a lot though.

But at least her quirks of making bad decisions is still in 3. -looks at Ava-

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Well having her powers removed would be like losing the ability to see I imagine for a siren. I assume she was devastated by that and yet she showed leadership by ignoring her personal loss and keeping the team focused on the goal.

That said, how many times would you open a vault and have it taken from you before you changed your approach? :slight_smile:

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The thing I don’t understand is: why did NO ONE at least try and figure out how to stop Tyreen tracking the VHs? I mean, she was obviously able to hook into their Echo 3. Are those things seriously so susceptible to hacking that they’re more of a liability? (Scooter hacked your echo, the dude in Oasis hacked your echo, … Hey Dahl, your device network security SUCKS!)


She did literally phase sanctuary to safety in BL2.

(When you first meet her, she seemed like a junkie hooked on eridium. I thought getting her to sanctuary would be a huge intervention about her usage problems.)

I’d argue that if she hadn’t been there Jack may not have even turned up. He came because he needed another siren to keep charging the key and saw his opportunity. Angel knew this, which is why she warned Lilith against coming (although agree it’s strange that she couldn’t just say why). Roland’s death was because she was too hot-headed to obey, like Maya died because of Ava. Great siren powers don’t exactly lend themselves to rational thinking, apparently

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Possibly, possibly not. He is very keen to avenge his daughter, as is made clear in one of his broadcast announcements when you arrive back in Sanctuary and when you progress through the story in Heroes Pass and the vault. I think it highly likely he would have shown up anyway.

Yeah, he’s undoubtedly upset but why didn’t he try and kill the other VH if it was about revenge? He just happened to carry a Siren restraining collar with him? He came to grab Lilith, which was what Angel actually warned us might happen (knowledge gained in retrospect). Once he got what he wanted he left. To me that says Lilith being there was the key

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If she hadn’t have been there, he would have had to find a way to trap her somehow some place else - he needed a siren to speed up the key charging. Either way, I suspect Roland would have wound up dead given the history revealed in TPS.

yes he would, agreed. The point though is that Lilith’s hot headed actions gave him a reason to teleport in, killing Roland in the process. Without that incentive I have my doubts he’d put himself at risk like that.

Lilith is a fine character, but the Borderlands story had enough of her. She had a beautiful farewell, with ending theme and everything, and it’ll be weird if they still bring her back to boss around in BL4.


I find it interesting that Marcus mentions (in the DAMMIT UNSKIPPABLE CHARACTER START SEQUENCE) that Lilith has “saved Pandora a dozen times over”.
Really? When? Arguably, she saved Pandora from Hector, that’s One.
Destroying the Destroyer in BL1 could be considered a save of Pandora, so that’s Two.

Sooooo, there are 10 more times that she saved Pandora that we don’t know about? Fleshing out those saves might elevate her character to more of a Hero.