I hate that lilith is made out to be a hero

In the last dlc there is a scondary quest where you help someone indulge in cannibalism, the VH protests a bit but still accept to do it, “Vault hunter are who.res” as Aurelia said :rofl:

Flaws only work when the story makes the characters acknowledge their flaws head on, or make other characters acknowledge it for them. Lilith and Ava if anything were rewarded constantly for their flaws. Ava got everything she could have wanted. Lilith is dang near regarded as a goddess.

In fact, only the reader even thinks of these character traits as flaws. No NPC in the story ever treats these characters as flowed characters which is the problem.

yeah, amazingly the music choices the BL team picks for their games are incredible both for the song and how well they fit the game and characters themselves.

as for the topic, Handsome Jack thinks he’s the hero of his story, and we think we’re the hero in the story that Marcus tells. Every vault hunter in Marcus’ story is a hero by his definition. but the dude is just as loose with the word hero as he is with the words “my favorite customer”

(also I think I was wrong in my last post, I think TPS is told by Athena not Old Marcus and Tales might be told by Rhys and Fiona if I’m remembering right)

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Oh and how much i hoped for that beeing real.
Allways thought it would be the greatest thing to loose against the twins at the end of bl3 (not everyone dying loose, but need to step back and regroup loose) just to find out jacks vision (pre-sequel) was real and he would in fact saved the planet by killing the bandits with the warrior. And in fact, we (crimson raiders) are the only reason why the galaxy is going down, do to stoping jack bevor he could stop the actual bad guys

By the way, about the topic…
Dont forget what maya and lilith talked about.
In fact i think lilith choosed ava as the leader because of what maya said and has done.

But yes on the other hand, i was also more on the “please let lilith die as the bad one” side
But actually mostly because she was one of the main characters that betrayed jack (and made him go crazy finally) and the fact that she acted so superior to athena by judging her

Jack was already crazy long before that. He shot people out of an airlock and got a kick out of it. he didn’t need anybody’s help

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Yeah thats true… but i mean “im gonna wipe all bandits out of this planet” crazy…
He was crazy befor. And no, he was for shure not the good guy.
But i mean dont we vault hunters do similar things the hole time and find it funny
Listen to charakter line in bl2 and 3 when you kill a normal hyperion or maliwan soldier (that may, or may not, be an ■■■■■■■ but not shure if that would be enough to let his head explod and laugh about it) :joy:
I just think before jack got betrayed, he was not that far away from what the vault hunters are.
A lot of power, a bit of narcissim, maybe even more responsibility then most, just a little ■■■■■■■ with a dark sense of humor and a moral compass that should be questioned.
Every thing we loved and still love about most of the playable chars and npc in this game
Didnt lilith liked it first when a clan praised her by setting people on fire?
Didnt brick got nothing better to do then punch some innocent miners in the face?
Wasnt tinas biggest goal to kill a girl again that was her hole life enslaved by his father?
Or should we start to talk about krieg (as one of the good guys?) :joy:
Yes they all had there reasons. But dindt jack had them too?
In fact he was in a lot of points pretty simular to typhen wich gets praised the hole time…

I just meant that it was after the betray, (and because of it) when he went completly of the hook.