Yo w’sup fools!
Since @ACNAero summoned me, I might as well say something. And by something, I really mean a really big wall of text and stuff, so please bear with me.
So the main idea is that Lilith would be made into a future main villain. The initial reasons to support this theory are as follows:
- Lilith cannot remain rational because she’s mentally and/or emotionally unstable.
- Lilith now has god-like powers which might end up corrupting her.
- Lilith is willing and able of committing “evil” acts.
- Lilith easily fits the Fallen Hero archetype.
- The Fallen Hero archetype can easily be converted or shifted into the Main Villain archetype.
- Every good story needs a good Main Villain.
- Jack is dead, so the role of Main Villain is open.
Now, here is my stand: I disagree. Lilith wouldn’t make for a good Main Villain in future BL games without completely rewriting the character or changing the premise of the existing game-narrative structure.
To fully understand and appreciate my defense of my stand, one needs to be familiar with the original Borderlands game, with an emphasis on The Armory of General Knoxx DLC, Borderlands 2 + DLCs, and Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel + DLCs.
I will also be copying directly from past posts that I have made in the old forums that are relevant here.
First off, Lilith is impulsive, but far from being emotionally unstable. I’m sure she hates Jack with a passion, but I think anyone would, had he or she also been violated and tortured just right after seeing his or her love interest get shot in the back. And though she probably does have god-like powers at her disposal, that doesn’t necessarily mean that she will use her powers for evil. In fact, there’s no real account or evidence that Lilith would commit evil (relatively speaking, by Pandora’s standards) acts.
“Well, Lilith just tried to get Athena executed! So she’s got to be bad!”
Not really. The way I see it, Lilith could very well be justified in executing Athena, and Athena certainly did nothing to dissuade her either. Here is a comparison of the two of them.
Lilith has always been impulsive. We see this when she ignores Roland’s orders to stay in Sanctuary, and we see this when she acts like a dick to Mr. Torgue. Lilith followed Jack and company into the Elpis Vault more out of sudden whim than of a long, thought-out, well-planned strategy. She wants to see Jack fail, but murder was not actually on her mind. She destroyed the Vault symbol, which she thought would have been enough. I don’t think she had the forethought to see Jack murdering his way up the corporate ladder, or that Angel was assisting him along the way. Lilith never gave him that much credit, which is a reasonable assumption. Jack’s a ■■■■■■’ weak-ass, cowardly bitch. Plus, no one knew he had a Siren under his control. Well, maybe his wife did, but that’s another story…
Athena, however, is a reserved professional assassin, loyal to the mission above all else. The only time she flew off the handle was when she got stabby upon the realization that she had killed her own sister. After that, she used everything in her power to kick Atlas off Pandora for good. Despite her stoic demeanor, her rhetoric regarding Atlas Corporation implied a sense of righteousness, a call to a moral obligation. From that, the player can get the feeling that she’s doing this as a cause, to finally take a stand against Atlas, and not so much out of revenge (though revenge is still implied with this new cause of hers). Lilith knew that Athena. She had a cause, she had a motivation, she had an emotional drive that was simply more than just a paycheck. Athena even allowed Knoxx to get killed to stop Atlas, despite his genuine concern and respect for the former Lance assassin (though in her defense, Knoxx did have a deathwish, and if Athena wasn’t going to kill him, then he had hoped the Vault Hunters would). Here’s the intro to the General Knoxx DLC, for reference:
http://youtu.be/kdqGrqiMQCU
We see none of that in TPS. In fact, she shows little to no emotion throughout the game, reverting back to her mercenary mindset. Had she possessed that same fervor she did back in the Secret Armory of General Knoxx DLC, it could be reasonable that she would see Jack for what he was, and completely bail on him. Instead, she’s only in it for the money. There is no cause for her. She has no emotional ties to anyone involved. Her main motivation is to continue the mission.
So when Lilith asks Athena why she worked for Jack, Lilith was probably expecting something a little more than just, “I was paid to do it.” Could she have been duped like before with Atlas? Was she being blackmailed? No. Athena worked for Jack simply because she was paid to do so. She put loyalty to the mission first, over loyalty to people. After all, she could just be paid to kill everyone in Sanctuary, and not blink an eye of remorse. She chose to act like a professional assassin rather than like a real person.
And that’s what Lilith finds so infuriating. Roland was also ex-Crimson Lance, but that did not stop Roland from caring about others. Roland lived and died protecting others (while also killing others, to be sure, but those others were bandits who would have killed other non-bandit types). He managed to form the Crimson Raiders, who were former Lance soldiers with orders to kill him not too long before. He inspired leadership and camaraderie where only violence had existed. He was universally admired and respected, hated only by those who took to the way of banditry over community. Athena should have walked away from her past like Roland did. If anything, she suffered more than Roland had with the Crimson Lance, and should have more than enough moral justification to “fight the good fight.”
Yet, this Athena, the one who had worked for Jack and the one being interrogated by Lilith, lacked that moral outrage. Jack was clearly much more of a monster and ■■■■■■■ than General Knoxx ever was. Yet, she let Jack live after she had successfully fulfilled her mission. I can understand Athena being a bit upset with Moxxi and company trying to kill her, but after it’s all said and done, she should be ******’
royally pissed off that Jack duped her into thinking they were the good guys, that Jack put Elpis and Pandora into danger because of his selfish quest for power, that Jack would easily kill off anyone and everyone out of paranoia and expediency, and that Jack had put her and everyone else into those situations.
But she wasn’t.
Instead, Athena simply replaced Atlas with Jack, even if it were just a temporary arrangement. Athena had no loyalty to her former rescuers and allies. Athena chose to stay as a professional assassin, regardless of any moral dilemma she would have. In that regard, she’s no better than Claptrap. But at least Clappy can always be excused because he was programmed not to feel guilt. Athena consciously and deliberately chose not to.
Lilith knows first-hand of what Athena is capable of (even more than Brick or Mordecai since they were not on Elpis or Helios during the events of TPS), she knows that Athena willingly let Jack pursue his agenda, and she knows that Athena is a professional mercenary, putting the mission above all else, even her own morals. Athena knew too much and had no allegiance to anyone. That made her a very dangerous wild card. That was why Atlas tried to kill her before, and that is one reason why Lilith wanted her captured.
The other reason is that Lilith saw Athena as part of Jack’s inner circle. Nisha became the Sheriff of Lynchwood and the killer of Brick’s pet dog. Wilhelm became Jack’s right-hand man and the cybernetic
monstrosity that destroyed New Haven. (The Fragtrap was probably junked for spare parts, easily replaced by the more efficient combat Loaders.) But what about Athena? What became of her once Jack rose to power? She wasn’t there in New Haven, and she wasn’t there in the final assault in
Hero’s Pass. If nothing else, Lilith still saw her as one of Jack’s croonies, acting as Hyperion’s top wet-work agent as she did with Atlas. Lilith thought Athena was better off dead with Nisha, Wilhelm and Jack, particularly with Athena’s unrepentant (almost) last words. So in a fit of grief, anger, agony, and a probably-much-more-than-significant overdose of Eridium, she gives the order to fire.
Remember, Athena approached the first Vault Hunters to work with her. She had them do the dirty work to stop the same Crimson Lance that she left and “betrayed.” Now, she is seen working with Jack just before his rise to power. Even if Athena did leave Jack’s employ, she still allowed him to remake Hyperion just as bad, if not worse, than the Atlas Corporation that she claimed to despise.
With all that said, Lilith would definitely have a strong justification to execute Athena, particularly when Athena does nothing to help her case. And at the end of everything (thus far) it is Lilith who apologies for almost killing Athena, while Athena remains largely aloof about her involvement in Jack’s rise to power.
