I think the entire community would like an answer to a question I pose

Formations and Tactics are utterly useless.

All these pointless patches and the most broken part of the game is still untouched.

Uhm…

Why?

Why is this issue being skipped in staff meetings for each patch?

Can we get a non-■■■■■■■■ answer?

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Pointless patches? The first big patch, mar5, among other things addressed issues that prevented people from completing story missions at all, restored missing audio content, and crash issues in netgames. Mar19 addressed more campaign progress blockers, stability issues, and issues with large/odd resolutions. May 6 had fixes for more progress blockers in campaign, crash issues, keybinding issues, and some imo very need UI reskins and improvments, and repair beams that people were fervently requesting. May 19 fixed the hyperspace issue, and persistant keybinding issues that I know people werehaving trouble with. And june9 has the multiplayer lobby whose absence was causing people here to literally declare the end of hope.

And that’s just the highlights, and ignoring mods and the RR mission. ‘Not the thing I want the most’ is not the definition of pointless. If the game as shipped is outright not working for some people that paid money for it, in my opinion fixing that should take priorty over overhauls, and this is coming from a guy who has fantasized about adding formations and tactics to HW2 for at least six years! Moreover, the fact that it’s not done yet doesn’t mean nobody’s been working on it, it just means it’s not done yet. A half baked feature patch, especially right now with the game on the front page of a steam sale, would be potentially much worse than no patch at all.

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Yes. Pointless.

Formations and Tactics are a key part of the game that you’re saying “Oh it’s okay I spent 50 bucks on the game I don’t mind if it doesn’t work”.

Homeworld 1 relied heavily on usage of formation and tactics. Gearbox just said “■■■■ it let’s throw it into the HW2 engine and worry about it until after it comes out”.

Formations and Tactics should have been one of the first few features added on this “Remastered”.

I’m saying the issues they’re choosing to pay attention to are nothing compared to the insults that their implementations of formations and tactics have done to Vanilla HW.
It’s disgusting. The game should never have been released with these two things broken.
No exceptions.

There is literally two features that are completely fcking broken- and you’re saying it’s okay to patch the other stuff and not have fixed this in the first patch.
Pft. No.

I want to know the exact moment during development that the senior lead designer said it was OKAY to release the game with two broken features that made Homeworld what it is - AND then subsequently MODIFY the original difficulty of the campaign to make it possible to complete despite your entire fleet acting like a bunch of morons doing whatever the hell they want 99.9% of the time.

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So I just got home for work. I opened up steam and the summer sale was on. I looked and saw homeworld remastered was 60% off. I was like, that’s awesome, and I immediately checked the steam board and people were saying formations are still broken. :frowning: This makes me sad. Is there any official news about progress or release dates yet?

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Not only are they broken, but we are playing an entirely UNFAITHFUL “remastered” version of Homeworld.

Like I said - they ignored formations and tactics being broken, modified various elements of the campaign/game to allow players to beat it without using Wall/sphere/aggressive/evasive.

I’d be ■■■■■■■ sick to my stomach if i was Relic.]

I have the bloody angel moon tattoo’d on me ffs. Yes. I’m heated.

Personally I wouldn’t have considered the game fit for launch without formations and tactics either, but it did launch. I would rate making the less-than-ideal game actually work as higher import than turning it into the ideal game. Leaving all the issues they’ve patched already alone while working on only formations might have pleased the most diehard HW1 fans, but it would have had it’s own steep price.

I do mind. I’d also mind if I’d bought it to play through the stories with no investment in the classic mechanics, which I know people who did, and it glitched out on missions and stopped them from progressing, and I know people who had that happen too.

Your opinion is not universal, and neither is mine. Your thread title, “I think the entire community…” ignores the fact that there are members of this community who don’t care, and also members who think including formations is actually a bad idea. I disagree with them, and I imagine you would disagree with them even more strongly, but they do exist and are equally valid members of the community as you or I.

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Formations never bothered me, but then I was never able to play HW1 until the remaster, I missed that boat back in '99

I think the pacing of patches has been phenomenal, it only feels like forever until you look back and realise that there’s been a patch essentially every couple of weeks. Soon enough the basics will be taken care of and the really esoteric stuff that’ll only be used in mods will start to be layered in. Have patience grasshopper :sunglasses:

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I really love when people claim to represent ‘the entire community’ when they fire off redundant questions / back-handed complaints…

A forum member with 6 posts to their credit has been voted community speaker?! I hadn’t even heard there was an election. Congrats though.

We have been working on LOTS of stuff - including, yes, Formations and Tactics. That your opener calls our work and patches ‘pointless’ really places the expertise you’d bring to bear to talk about this issue in question. The ‘answer’ you want is that we’re working, a ton, on many things. It’ll be ready when it’s ready.

And no, I don’t consider them broken, thanks. That you disagree with our design doesn’t mean our design is broken.

Good thing you’re not Relic then phew because they helped make Remastered, and were quite happy with the results…

When we finish working on the game and get it the way we like it, I bet you’ll still be bitter - thankfully a massive majority of the players will be happy and spent their time actually playing.

As with all things internet, the vocal minority of upset people almost never represent the experience you’d have. The review scores and players have overwhelmingly voted that it was a great release. Hell, we hit the top 2 in sales again today - people are obviously really not enjoying this game at all.

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I had to post it…

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don’t feel alone… the MAJORITY of hw1 veterans feel the same way. hop on youtube and you will find countless videos covering this very topic. we were very upset at first, but have somewhat come to grips with the fact that we have to be patient, cross them fingers, and hope for the best.

we just now got a chat / game lobby for multiplayer just a few days ago. we had to wait 3 months for it, but it did get built. so again, patience is your best bet.

gearbox has never built an RTS before, so some of this stuff is new territory for them. they were also somewhat unaware how many hardcore homeworld lovers there are out there. many of us doubted their commitment to fixing what is broken, but they have made progress. it is slow, but it is progress. hang in there man.

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@VegitaFajita

Did you know that the last 3 patches added back end changed to facilitate and allow Formation and Tactics changes that we will receive in one of the future patches? It might be a bit vague for some but that is a direct result of the Dev team here being flexible in what they try and get to the community and when (like the unplanned but appreciated Lobby addition for example)

If you would like a more complete answer then I can only suggest you read the rest of these forums to see what the Devs are working on currently and their progress, especially the GIGANTIC HW1/HW2 - Code/Engine changes discussion It should answer most of your questions.

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Don’t people do searches anymore?

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i suspect with the influx of new players, we are gonna get a bunch of dejavu threads in here.

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News section, pinned 3d old post from the devs: MOD AUTHORS - Important Format/Data Changes! [7/8 UPDATE]

Talks about some of the Formation changes in the most recent patch and work they are doing. From what I understand modders can already start working with it.

Pointless patches indeed.

My concern is pretty basic:

  • There are players with very strong preferences for HW1 ‘vanilla’ (aka pre-remaster).
  • Against everything we said about the remaster before/after release they still expect HW1 engine mechanics.
  • This isn’t HW1 engine. (we made that very, very clear prior to release)
  • Many players of remaster have no basis for that bias (no actual experience with HW1, or indeed no ‘muscle memory’ about it)…
  • Those new players are the ones enjoying the game(s) - and where we got our very happy ratings/reviews from. Because in that context - these games play great, look great, etc.
  • Because the remasters are not the classic games, I don’t consider the remaster design broken. Period.

Some of you will disagree. On the flip, some will say ‘yeah, it’s not exactly HW1, but it’s still fun, still emotional/epic’. I’ve ready that in reviews and responses to ‘is this any good?’ threads over and over. It is a valid (and I would say the predominate) view.

  • I’d prefer more players to play the game without a 2nd-hand bias for something they themselves have no experience.

But always, there’s a reason a ‘vocal minority’ is called a ‘vocal minority’. They’re vocal, and not the majority of players.

That isn’t an attempt to minimize the validity of their views - heck, in our case we’ve been working to address those views in ways that would have never been considered in the past… the nightmares I’ll personally have about the formations and strike-groups code & systems will haunt me for the rest of my life. But I also hate that new players are potentially dealing with the most bitter and negative people possible - people who don’t bother to think about the other player’s perspective. I’ve heard new customers ask about ‘broken formations’ - it’s frustrating from my perspective because not only do I disagree, but even taking into account the concern - the other player has no context for that, nor is it valid for half of the experience (HW2 campaign). Instead, they’re just worried about something with no context to severity or relevance to their direct experience.

I’d rather new players play, form a personal experience, and hopefully grow the fanbase for the game/universe - because that’s how we do more of this work and keep updates coming. If we can’t do that, if we can’t justify more effort and investment - who benefits?

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I think the issue with formations is that while they are sought after, they aren’t fully necessary in the way they worked in HW1. The OP seems to forget that Relic Made homeworld 1, and they MADE homeworld 2. That means they decided for some reason that ballistics and formations in the manner that was used in Homeworld 1 wasn’t necessary. Do I agree with it? Not really, but Gearbox is doing what they can with the engine to try and get as close to the homeworld 1 style as possible without compromising game play.

so that NEW people can actually enjoy the game. Homeworld 1 was definitely not the easiest game for people to get into. The formations and tactics had more depth but were not always easy to use as a new player. However I want to see that back as it really did enhance the flow of battle, and how it could change. Whoever had the correct formations sometimes beat the user who had the better fleet composition.

So far I have been greatly enjoying Homeworld Remastered as a veteran homeworld 1 player and homeworld 2 player. Balancing is being worked on and bugs are getting squashed.

my biggest gripe with the game right now is the capital ship pathing. some maps are insanely frustrating to me as I have to hyper space my ships to the position I want them. I cant just move them as they treat asteroids bigger than they are and tend avoid them by going anywhere but the location I sent them to. Try moving a carrier to the middle of the map and it goes all the way to the bottom. The map in question is fields of plaz. I’ve also seen this happen in the final mission for the Homeworld 1 campaign. That’s what is really blocking my enjoyment on some of the maps.

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Thanks for the lobby. I hope there is more of an emphasis placed on community now as well moving forward. It will help people actually stick around and not make it feel as though the game is “dead”, so to speak. There are several of us which look forward to guiding our little community for years to come. Homeworld 3 much? Heh. :smiling_imp:

I really wish some of the older HW purists would just get on board and promote the game rather than not doing so since it is in everyone’s best interest do so. At the very least, keep an open mind for the future.

I won’t begrudge ‘purists’ their viewpoint or preferences - I want some of what they do, and I am in a position (along with the team) to do something about that. So, we’ll get there.

The chat lobby is V1 right now. V2 will rock ya’ll. Lots of other stuff is coming as well, and our player base has sky rocketed due to the sale (well over 2000 people right now).

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V2? ohhh snap

Man I know how you feel. I’ve made some GREAT progress on a mod I’ve wanted to do forever thanks to the guys making Blender plug-ins and there’s a handful of less glamorous, tedious work that I need to do to get it where I want it to proceed. (In this case I need docking paths to work so my collection unit can dock and…ya know…progress my new faction’s economy) and there’s all this other stuff to do after that works and it’s all exciting and I have 20 things to do at once.

There’s RL work stuff, there’s stuff I wanna do on HODOREST, there’s this mod…just…alskjdhgkjlshdg

And on your side you for formations, mod support code-wise, mod support documentation-wise, v2 chat room, balancing

Gonna be a hectic summer :stuck_out_tongue:

Hope your new place in TX has great AC xD

Of course I adrmire your work, but this stance is false

See, a remade game is typically an overhauled improvement of an original game that was released several years ago, while a remastered game is just a visually enhanced version of an original game that was recently released, specifically catered towards the current-gen consoles.

Read more: http://dispatches.cheatcc.com/1073#ixzz3csJuyHq1
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives

This is the basic difference. Plus it is not called Homeworld 2 remastered, but Homeworld. Things are still broken and you should not expect people to play with for example formations, which just don’t work and don’t serve any purpose? You have chosen the hw2 engine. You have chosen the mutli-race MP. You have already made your bed, now it is time for you to sleep in it :smile:

Still in my opinion this discussion is meaningless. You have shown us your dedication and hard work towards this franchise, although you are not responsible for the pre-release and this mess. We will wait and when the product is finished We shall justify your actions and your results.

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