I think we have to face it



You can think something is not well written and still enjoy it though. I thought the whole premise of Avengers Endgame was pretty dumb (since you mentioned Avengers), but I still enjoy the movie.

It’s the same with Borderlands here, even if I think the premise of the entire story is really stupid and the main story is full of contrivances and PiS (like you said), it doesn’t mean I didn’t like the game as a whole, is just means I didn’t find the plot to be good.


“Repeatedly headbutting this brick wall is kinda boring, can I get different colored bricks maybe?”
“Shut up! Maybe after you headbutted the entire wall down.”

I’m probably one of the only ten people who played the trials more than a handful of times, and even though no, I can’t do sub-5 min runs every time, I’ve kinda had my fun with them. A time-attack counter isn’t exactly high-tier replay value.
The same applies to other parts of the game.

Also, although I’m not with the haters in this thread, but I reckon it’s debatable if we are “well” past the darkest days (bugs still in the game; mutators are still not freely selectable like in presequel (mayhem 11 is a half-measure); weapon balance still has many many kinks; same for anointments).

Well put. I’d argue that all titles except maybe TPS had this problem. GBX seems to have trouble figuring it out.

  1. We have to remember that for Lilith to be impulsive is in-character. She also throws caution to the wind. In TPS when she punches the Vault relic into Jack and just leaves. She could have just killed him. In BL2 she gets strung out on Eridium, Teleports US & later Sanctuary (admitting she had little control of our destination afterwards), Shows up at the Command Core and gets captured and forced to charge the Vault Key because she just does things without thinking.

  2. Good point, she does fall from the sky, but if you look it’s more like she just materializes midair and descends into a pillar of flames. https://youtu.be/sHXobxYjzKE?t=33 I paused it and played it at .25 speed. Up till Fight For Sanctuary Lilith just Bamphed! around like Nightcrawler, and she does exactly that when she helps us fight off the COV at Tannis’s dig site.

  3. Even with an army, if she couldn’t get Rhys or Wainright to tell her where their Key fragments were, or wasn’t powerful enough and had enough Cultists to defeat Katagawa for his Fragment, they would be stuck. And to just stress it even more, they needed someone to Charge the Keys. The twins couldn’t, and until Troy had Maya’s abilities, they couldn’t use Eridium either.

  4. I mean, he is meant to be comic relief. They did miss a golden opportunity when the Claptastic Voyage made him nearly the most sympathetic character in the game. It was Pixar levels of tragic.

  5. Those fires were put out by opening Valves that happened to be in those areas. There weren’t any in the cargo bay. About the Ammo, I’m not saying the guns were loaded, but have you ever picked up a gun with Zero Ammo in a Borderlands game? But seriously, if that’s where they stored their supplies, Ammo is a supply, so I was implying that their ammo reserves not in Marcus’s vending machine were down there. In BL2 behind Marcus’s counter there’s a Bank, and we get to loot his back room of loot which explains some of his inventory. He lives in his shop in this game, no supplies to be found, that’s something that could be nitpicked for pettiness’s sake.

  6. They actually don’t. They are at every location before us except the Machine, which is on a planet they were already on. They knew the locations of all the Vaults because they knew all Typhon’s stories. They were on Pandora. They were already sponsored by Maliwan, who were working for them on Promethea and Athenas. They had already taken out Jakobs and installed Aurelia long enough ago that the B-Team had been hired to free Hammerlock, who was jailed long enough to have made friends with the inmates who had been experimented on. Maliwan was already on Nekrotefayo long enough to have set up large camps, catch-a-rides, and mechanisms to operate the Eridian Temple doors.

  7. This is basically like the Watchmaker theory. Something as complex as a watch implies the watchmaker engineering it, if you believe everything needs a maker. It is what it is because that’s the path of the story we follow. In a way it leaves those manufacturers freed up for other stories. Also, it may not be the case that every corporation fought in the corporate wars, just some. Maybe they don’t all have armies?

  8. Sorry about those typos, I meant, in the game they can tell us “Go down to the Cargo bay and drop the beacon so you can fast travel.” It’s superficial, but it’s also meant to connect being on Sanctuary orbiting the planets with traveling from Space to the Surface in a more immersive way, hence the establishing shots/ vignettes when we do land. It’s like using a mantle animation instead of just making a double-jump option. It’s connective tissue to inject pseudo-realism.

  9. It’s definitely a “show, don’t tell” moment. There are a few like that in the game that merit more context, and plenty that are redundant and unnecessary, or buried in side-quests and hidden echos and what not.


Do we -players- created a proper full list of bugs, issue list for them in the first place to be addressed? If not, just everyone positng on the forum, and expecting fixes for stuff they dont like… well no company can be blamed for that.
-Need a comprehensive compiled forum topic for all bugs, issues with designs -like talent trees, etc.
-Need an official support ticket regarding the above, showing them that these are serious bugs flaws issues in the game
-Player base need to support that one forum post, not letting to die out (particularly not archived, not locked, etc.). Which is very hard, considering the new tricky forum system, where posts automatically go dormant and when I tried to revive my old post admin locked it.

So… Until then, we can talk. :slight_smile:

Something like this?

or this?

Or once upon a time this one?

There has been player effort to create such resources, they’ve also gone unaddressed for such lengths of time that those maintaining the resources either became disheartened or just moved onto other games.

The discord community recently compiled and sent bug lists to GBX for each character, I’m not going to go dig one up now. However if you want to hear about what went on it, talk to Lazydata about the Amara one, or Quag about the FL4K one.

So… Its about time, we can talk. :slight_smile:


Yes, something like that…
And the question, what are players going / can do all about this?
Because this is the same thing with every game out there today.
But player base keep buying the games for full price and preorder even.
It was the same with BL3 too.
Every game comes out full of bugs, unfinished.
Yet players 95% of them buy early/at start.
I’m saying this since 10 years or more now.
The only thing we could do is not to buy the games at launch.
I follow this principle, you should too. I buy half price/ 75-80% discounted games, even AAA titles.
Because the same thing happens every time.
So I suggest stop buying the BL expansions, and BL4 at start. Let it sink in for the devs.
I’m keep waiting for a game like BL4 to be released and only a few thousand purchases in the first few months. That would show the devs.
If they allegedly spend 3-4 years in the making, allegedly spending millions of dollars on it and this is the end result, people really strongly should question the quality vs. resources spent on such games.

People need to stop saying the following: “I hope the next game will be better…” Or else you will think that the next game and the next game and the next will be better and spend your 60-70Bucks on similar games with very similar quality/condition/missing developer support.

DISCLAIMER: I love BL3 I only got a few issues with it. I got what I expected. Because I didn’t expect much. And I purchased for a discounted price. BL3 and none of the AAA games out there worth more than 20bucks even at the launch of the game.

PS.: BL franchise ALWAYS got terrible support after releases. This is nothing new to me. Unfortunately. :frowning:


I have no dog in this fight but, What AAA games do you play? I played some that I literally loved so much I buy them twice.

I think everyone knows that. I mean bl2 wasn’t in the best state in the beginning and became pretty amazing product. Alot of people or maybe just me bought it on good faith that they’d do it again which has bit me in the butt unfortunately.

  1. So, she’s impulsive when needed. Seems a bit like PiS to me. Either Way, just seems odd for a teleporter to get that close to a dangerous enemy, impulsive or not.
  2. Yeah, it’s tough to tell. Mainly she does teleport though, agreed.
  3. So you’re saying without our help, she couldn’t get into the vaults, which was my point 6, why go where she tells us when its clearly a trap. And if she can’t charge or use vault keys, why worry about her getting to the vaults?
  4. Totally agree, claptastic voyage was awesome.
  5. Ah, I get you, yes there might have been ammo, then. As for nitpicking, why isn’t his stock digitised like everything else? Our guns and ammo are kept in storage decks, but he has tons of gear sitting in boxes? And yes, convenient valves for fires were convenient, for plot reasons.
  6. Yeah, the timeline of events is kinda weird (like Troy absorbing Maya and calling us 2 minutes later on sanctuary to say he’s spent “all day” using her powers) and feels like a lot of time is missing in places. But yeah, I get what you’re saying about them being ahead of us a lot of the time.
  7. And this takes us back to the Lore behind the games and what we can tell from what’s said in-game. Basically, it’s uncertain and hard to tell if its a plothole or bad explaining. It’s not like the watchmaker argument though, as I’m not pointing to one thing and inferring another, I’m pointing to a bunch of similar things (the games say all the corporations are big and powerful and vault obsessed) and saying why is one different?
  8. Ah, I get you. Thanks. And yeah, I agree it’s a gameplay thing so it doesn’t need to make sense, but from a real world sense it doesn’t make sense.
  9. Totally agree.
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Oh trust me you are not the only one that dived in head first into BL3 with the expectation of that game at least being as good as the previous entries. Personally I at least expected the split screen to work as good and to be able to play it on my console and online without it crashing. Just a learning lesson for us all when it comes to buying or preordering.


I’ve reported countless bugs to the Gearbox Support and provided all the information i.e. video examples etc. Now 8 months later and none of the bugs are fixed.


Welllll … that is a bit of a stretch. Since leaving BL3, I have played several games that yes, might have some minor bugs, but nothing gamebreaking or console crashing. And the actual bugs do seem to get addressed fairly quickly by most.

And the games are rather finished.

To me, BL3 has been the exception in this department. I gave GBX the benefit of the doubt in the beginning. They just proved time and time again they are tone deaf, and for whatever reason to this day refuse to address actual problems that have been in the game since day 1. Console crashing, bad split screen UI, horrible online coop play…

If you are going to sell your game to consoles, it damn well better work on that console…

  1. I don’t think it would be inaccurate to say Lilith has always been impulsive. Cult of the Eternal Flame is probably the biggest evidence that she DOES NOT have good judgement.
  2. :+1:
  3. Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. But what I didn’t say, that addresses the question of Why, is:
    A. They are attacking our Ally Rhys and have him on his heels.
    B. They are attacking our Ally Maya and have her on her heels.
    C. They have captured our Ally Hammerlock and have Wainright on his heels.
    D. They have captured our Ally Tannis and have us on our heels.
    E. REVENGE for Lilith, Maya, Montgomery Wainright, and Rhys-ball.
  4. :+1:
  5. Well, storage decks have limits, so when at capacity the extra supply has to go somewhere I guess? In game you can sell out the vendor until it refreshes. Maybe the gun stock isn’t digit-structed, it’s fast-traveled from the stock room to the machine on the ship? Who knows? But if they wanted to explain the Airlock jettison, it wouldn’t be hard. Heck, just having Ellie admit she panicked would be fine.
  6. The entire line of side-quests with Troy discovering and using his Anointed Abilities implies a passage of time the game doesn’t convey. All it take is one like of dialogue, like Scooter’s when you arrive in the dust in BL2:

(upon entering the Dust)
Scooter: Finally made it to the Dust, huh? You been off the Echo fer hours, thought you mighta got brained or something. But you ain’t, so yay… and stuff. And stuff.

This ties into 8 too.

  1. I think it’s fair to ask what evidence do we have that Anshin, Pangolin, Tediore, Torgue, & Vladof are Vault-Obsessed? It’s actually made pretty clear that Jakob’s isn’t vault obsessed but the opposite, they’re put off by vault hunting. The only time Torgue is connected with a Vault, it’s to do with the Crater tournament, and I have a feeling that’s not in canon as a real vault. Most of the Torgue Corporation game lore is based around shady business dealing with Mr. Torgue to promote their brand through Battle Royals. And Vladof, though militaristic, has never been mentioned as mining or doing exploration for Vaults. Dahl Specifically sought to emulate Atlas on Pandora in BL1, and Maliwan seems to have the same Idea in BL3.

  2. It would have really helped if they had done a cutscene of the drop pod actually flying through space and then breaking through the upper atmosphere and descending through the sky from our perspective to show off the environments and immersive aspect of Next Gen graphics. I think they realized this a bit better with the “Drop In” for Arm’s Race, which of course emulates all the Battle Royal games.

Also, the did this in TPS with the Platform cutscene from Tychos Ribs to Eleezer, but in third person perspective.

  1. :+1:

Its the bigges warning sign in my book if a game on console crashing or having fps issues. :smiley:

On PC, that could happen, and if the stutter is minor or driver related, that usually gets fixed. But if there are engine problems, and crap coding (Like currently World of Warcraft Engine, its near breaking now IMHO, barely can reach 60FPS sometimes on a system where most of my AAA titles run 99FPS constant)…

But the problem always is that the devs and the companies like 2k and gearbox GETS AWAY WITH ■■■■. That is what annoys me the most!

Just like Cyberpunk 2077 now. A few sorries, we will fix it and they eventually will fix the game but currently its no where near worth 60 bucks.

Again I can’t complain much about BL3, it runs okay now for me (though some weird tooltip related stutter occurs, but my rig probably very fast to be visible now, but its definitely there) and its there since the start of the game. So yeah it sucks.

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gotta interject here, $60 for PC version of cyberpunk is fine, though I’m running an i9900k and a 3080 so.
At 2k I get +80fps in most areas, no stuttering at all so far, but I’m probably about midway through act 2 so I’m not sure.
As for bugs, haven’t experienced any besides the cops spawning everywhere when I accidentally shot a citizen.
It’s a pretty sick game once you get through act 1.

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:astonished: :astonished: :astonished:

Wish I could get my hands on one of those :rofl:

Yeah that is funny when it happens. Don’t think of them as cops but Agents ala The Matrix .


Hahahahaha! Agent Smith

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Definitely not ok.
A software release should NOT have any major game breaking issues. Not graphical, not performance, not story, not any elements like NPC AI.

If you accept that in other areas in life (like buying a car, buying a new video card, buying a shirt), where you expect the item to be fully working, you don’t have to take it back to fixing, then people need to understand the very concept of this rule SHOULD APPLY TO SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT AS WELL.

Why people think that software development is so hard to do and so insanely impossible that bugged games, bugged any kind of software is expected and normal?

I’m working in IT for more than 30 years. I know how things work. And software release buggines is terrible nowadays, I couldn’t find a game, or a software where no major issues in a purchasable, released state. Not one.

So people like you really need a mental change no offence, but people really need to evolve. Or AI seriously will kick people like you in the but that it will hurt a lot. And I’m not even an AI advocate at the current state…

And there is actually one developer who fixes its game in a ridiculously precise way: D.E. and the game is Warframe. And the game STILL GOT OLD BUGS FROM YEARS BACK! But they are completely have different attitude than gearbox with support that is for sure…

I got 3090, i7-8700, 32GB Ram, 2xCorsair 1TB gen4 m.2 SSD, etc… so I think I’m pretty okay when it comes to hardware. But some games got terrible performance, like Anthem and World of Warcraft, Division 2, etc. on my system. BL3 runs fine. But still got tooltip/loot stutter some time to time and had some fps stutters with some weapons (that I’ve ditched and since then I’m fine).

You know what that is really bugging the hell out of me in BL franchise? The biggest issue I got? Is the shadow quality and detailed shadow distance. Gearbox knowingly lowers the detailed shadow distance to an extreme level, where after 5 steps the shadow just stops. This irks me the most, disgusting, annoying and completely uncalled for performance wise. If you didn’t saw this before sorry that I made you see it now. :slight_smile:


The Vault Hunters were never the first to find any Vault. There were always other Vault Hunters. They were an established phenomenon even by BL1 lore. Why go on and on about what you think a good story is if you let your bias about BL3 contradict basic information about the lore of the franchise?

There is nothing that suggests Typhon found the Vault of the Destroyer (once he was on Nekrotafeyo, he stayed there, so any knowledge gained wasn’t transferrable except to the twins).

And this is what it feels like discussing BL3 sometimes :wink:

The whole thing of “BL3 has a bad story” has generated its own entire universe at this point. I’m fine with people not liking BL3 for any reason. But when people poke the same holes in BL2 and folks react badly? Sorry, that’s just bias. If you want to criticise BL3 for the player character not intervening in pivotal cutscenes, people get to criticise BL2 for the same, and you don’t need to (nobody needs to) try and find special reasoning why BL2 did it “right”.