I wanted to love Moze, and main her, but I just can't

When I got BL3 back in late September / Early October, I was ready to go with Moze. The idea of running around with a badass lady who happens to have a Mech on her back seemed like a blast.

I played through Normal, TVHM, got 100% on all the zones, and all of the trophies before I even touched another VH, outside of getting them through the opening cinematic.

I was playing through M4, and really slogging through it, trying to find a build that I enjoyed to play. When nothing that I was trying build wise worked, I started looking at the videos people were putting out, making those builds, and trying them.

Yeah, they were better, but they weren’t anymore fun than what I was playing before. Iron Bear Spam to get ASE anoints procc’d on Gun, Shield, and Grenade, just felt so tedious. You can jump to make the spawn of Iron Bear faster, but that wind down to exit was still felt like an eternity for 10-12 seconds of extra damage.

So, I took a break, and started playing other VH’s. I fell in love with Zane, Clone N Drone style of play, and he ended up being my first 53, my first solo Takedown, and I’m not working through gearing up for True Takedown Solo (but, I’ll probably be switching to Drone n Barrier for that).

I went back, and leveled Moze to 53, tried a few new builds, hoping the extra 3 points would make her more fun, but… I logged off this morning after dumping all of her gear back in the vault. She just isn’t as fun as Zane, or even Fl4k.

As I started to wonder why I couldn’t have more fun with Moze, I started to realize two things.

1.) Moze’s Action Skill wind up, and end are longer, and more immersion breaking than the others. Part of that, is because you are summoning a mech, part of that, is to make sure you really mean to exit Iron Bear.

2.) All 3 of Moze’s Skill Trees are peppered with just a single Element for her guns: Incendiary.

That works, when you’re fighting fleshy targets, or if you are playing on less than M4, But if you’re on M4, DLC, Takedown, or really lots of places that aren’t really specific, your damage is suffering a penalty, because of Shields and Armor.

While you could say that Zane’s most prominent element in his trees is Cryo, and that Cryo still takes a damage penalty against shields and armor, you are still capable of slowing / freezing enemies with Cryo that are shielded / Armored, and thus are getting damage reduction from the element.

Could Moze be updated to make her fun (for me)? Maybe? Probably? A few things have stuck out to me lately.

Watching a K6 stream, I heard him talking about the idea of having Moze “Titanfall” in the Bear, for Auto bear. That’d be fun. If Autobear turned your Iron Bear into that, man… that would be fun to try.

Give Moze some other way to heal besides grenades, OR, put the healing lower in the tree.

Zane:
Has healing AND health Regen that start with the 6th Skill Point.

Amara:
Has Health Regen starting Skill point 1, and COULD (not sure if you want to, because I don’t play Amara) put 10 points in a skill tree that give you all the time Health Regen, and more Health Regen while damaging enemies.

Fl4K:
Has health regen starting at Skill Point 1.

Moze? Well… She doesn’t get a dedicated healing method until Skill point 16, and it feels like the run to get that is almost mandatory to do high end M4 content. Maybe I’m wrong, but I haven’t found a way to do it.

TL;DR In the future I hope we see a way for Moze to be less reliant on Iron Bear Enter / Exit Spam, and a way for her to heal that isn’t so deep in the tree. After playing other Characters, I just don’t have the same love for Moze that I did.

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I kinda understand the your frustration, personally I think Moze just needs better class mods. I only ever use Blaster Master or Bloodletter SOMETIMES Green Monster.

Her Rocketeer class mod shouldn’t even be a thing, auto bear should work like that naturally or hell Iron Bear could just do it naturally by itself.

Some Gunner anointments could be changed to “while iron bear is active” instead of “after exiting iron bear”. I would also like to see “Vampyr” swap places with “Grizzled”

Just a few thoughts from someone who loves Moze. :bear:

that’s exactly how i feel. since i reached endgame i just don’t enjoy the class anymore. currently i’m thinking about switching to another character, too. but actually i wish that completely new classes would find their way into the game. i know that GBX has already denied that, but i doubt that the decision was that good. on the other side they could rework moze, but it requires more to it than just an improvement to some of her skills.

Does Green Monster pair well with flesh melter/otto idol for Moze?

On my corrosive flack I run Flesh melter otto idol, and Zane because I lack red tree, Ice Breaker otto idol is a must but both do great damage wise in M4 for those Char

(sorry just don’t have a Moze yet so curious)

I can understand the complaint about getting in and out being tedious but we get to be invincible for a few seconds and reposition if needed while using instant exit builds.

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With my main Moze (I have 2 moze) I stay always in my bear… The few times out I have a flakker and a babymaker. Works great (for me on iron bear explosive build , the best mod is bear trooper, not blast master)

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Yes i would imagine, I don’t actually have one myself. I swap between deathless elemental projector and last stand otto idol

Mind you Green Monster isnt the same as Blast Master you gotta ramp up the corrosive damage first but it still works ok, really shines while inside Iron Bear

With your build do you have a specific artifact and shield you lean towards? I’m like the OP, but thought about gearing up for iron bear and it’s duration. Any tip’s would be awesome.

I’m doing just fine with her on M4, outside of Takedown solo. Cant beat Wotan, but I haven’t tried with my zane yet .

I don’t worry about annointments at all with Moze, except the one on Grenade that increases damage by 25%. That’s essential.

Its kind of a relief since with my zane , any gun that doesnt have the Sentinel cryo damage bonus while active it trash . This makes him a lot less fun to play because getting that right annointment all the time is so rare.

My zane build is perfect, even got a god roll Seeing Red class mod (gun damage, grenade damage, and cooldown ). My sentinel and shield is up up 100% of time and with my barrier up I cant even remember last time i died.

Yet I prefer my moze. Iron bear is extremely useful for high DPS when confronting annoying enemies like annointed or badasses. One cryo and one explosive mini guy decimates.

I love short Fuse and all the explosions . My short Fuse secondary explosions do more damage than the main shot that proceed it, which is amazing additional bonus damage with afast firing weapon like Shrediffier.

Speaking of Shrediffier, moze is the only character that can use it indefinitely. My zane runs out of ammo for it within a few minutes and enemies. It’s my favorite weapon in the game.

My build is hybrid across all trees. I have a god roll bloodletter and snowdrift deathless. Having a blast (pun intended) with moze

For shield I use a recharger, not a particular artifact… The bear trooper mod makes the difference (with two grenade launchers in multiplayer, in singleplayer a grenade launcher and the big missile, missile is bugged in multiplayer)

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Getting a God Roll Bloodletter is almost as hard as getting anoints.

I disagree on Zane needing SNTL Anoints. I clear Takedown and neither of my Cutsman I use on Wotan are anointed at all, and my last clear of Wotan was Clone N Drone.

Does the anoint make it better? Sure, but Zane also has more Flat Gun Damage Skills in trees than Moze as well.

I’m glad that some people enjoy Moze, because as she is, I just can’t even be bothered to play her again. It is literally the least fun I’ve had playing a Vault Hunter since BL1, trying to play Mordecai (who I also wanted to love but never could)

What’s your build if you dont mind me asking?

And the god roll bloodletter was gifted to me.

The thing is about annointments with someone like zane is that they become useful because you use them all the time . Something like bonus cryo damage while sentinel is up basically means bonus cryo 100% of the time. Mentally that’s a hard bonus to let go of.

With moze , how often will you use that bonus elemental damage for 10 seconds on ASE anyways? Once every 2 minutes when you are done using IB? Big deal.

Honestly I hate how annointments are handled in this game and am glad moze gets the least benefit of them out of all the VHs. I actually dread the day they add an annointment for her on weapons that become essential. I suspect the game will become much less fun for me then too

I dont consider myself an amazing player but I do ad well with moze as my zane on M4, but moze is more fun on top of that

I totally agree with you, went straight to Moze when the game dropped and she was awesome. Then I hit the higher Mayhem levels and with all the hits Gearbox sent her way she just wasn’t fun to play anymore. I’m tired of throwing 'nades for health, it kills battle flow to disengage, throw, re-engage. Staying in Iron Bear is linear and gets old for me. Tediore chucking is as boring as watching paint dry, going deep into SoR seemed to make the game a slog. None of it felt like Borderlands. I went to Zane and the game is fun. Clone/Barrier, Clone/Drone, Drone/Barrier…pick your poison, all are fun to play with. Been running different combos of Zane since and never looked back.

Fl4K has options I’ve just begun to explore buts always a blast to play.

The difference between Moze and these two is real and true options of Borderlands game-play. Zane has it, Fl4k has it, Moze can only dream of it.

It’s clear… You don’t like explosions, Mr Torgue is really angry now ahahah

However, every character is fun to play if you find the right way. (I like play every character with 2 max weapon brands for character and all of them are fun).

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I love explosions, ran Axton the most by far in BL2 and ran Shredifier/Minesweeper with Moze. It WAS fun for a while but Moze’s setup is the simplest of all four VH’s… one action skill with different attachments compared to the others doesn’t stack up. Her skill trees give you different roads to the same place not to different destinations like the others. Shoot the floor with shock, chuck a 'nade, whatever…her healings abilities mostly take away from the pace of combat. I’ve played her everyway to Sunday and she doesn’t hold up for me and I REALLY wanted her to. My experience is obviously different from yours, that’s the way she goes.

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I rarely need to heal at all with Moze, with one build I’m always inside bear (ok for many players can be boring) and with other moze I have only red and green skill trees with vladof/cov weapons.

For artifact I have Fire stone victory rush (with +23% action skill recharge time)

I never would have guessed that Moze would be my main, but I’ve had a ton of fun with her. I haven’t run the really challenging stuff yet, school has me busy, but I have really enjoyed the mind sweeper COM with an Atlas Carrier assault rifle. My go-to shield and grenades have anoints with bonus corrosive and shock damage, and all the 'splosions burn, so I get a good mix of elements. The grenade I usually run is cryo too, and I have some other anoints if I want to use radiation or bulk up on just one element.

I’ve been lucky with some good anoints, but basically roll with a full green, most of blue tree build. The hopping in and out of IB is a little old at this point, I have to agree. If they did the hold action skill button to pop auto bear like I’ve seen many post, then it would be perfecto.

I think Moze would be better if you didnt have to invest 20 points into the Blue tree to get to Vampyr and max it out no matter what build you wanted to do.

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Moze already has “While Auto Bear is active” anointments, if that’s what you’re asking for. There is also a “While Iron Bear is active” grenade anointment.