I Wish Defenders Got A Damage Bonus Against Waves

I realize that it makes sense for Attackers to get an Attack Bonus and for Defenders to get a Defence bonus, but think just how much Defenders rely on Wave Clear abd Minion killing!

If im playing Ernest or Gali for example, both Defenders, and it’s one of those brutal, gruelling matches where you are just stuck at that first choke point just past your Sentry (in Incursion, obviously), and you’re just sitting there, clearing wave after wave of Minions / Thralls / Fatbots (not to mention eneny Battleborn), desperately hoping for that one perfect moment when you have broken their push and your counterpush to move up, sweep past the enemy controlled middle, and get to the eneny Sentry, well, it’s a LOT harder to counterpush when Attackers on the other team are getting 15 percent Attack damage against EVERYTHING NON BATTLEBORN coming out of your base!

It just perpetuates a vicious cycle of being stuck on defence!

I guess you could just stack your team with Attackers and use them for Defence?

But for those of us who main Defenders its frustrating!

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

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I think that this means team comps need to work a balance in more ways than before because character roles actually affect things

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Those of us who main supports don’t get a buff at all so just be thankful you got one

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Have u seen meltdown? :joy: supports are going to get extint at this rate :joy:

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I mean… I-I think it’s kind of stupid that i get damage resistance against minions… I DON’T EVEN GET CLOSE TO THEM!!

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Ernest has enough damage to waveclear with ease.

Gali is meant to facetank the wave, not necessarily faceroll it.

Attackers should be killing waves, not defenders. If your team’s attackers aren’t killing waves, something is wrong.

Defenders defending? Freaky stuff man. For real though, as long as they’re not breaking through, you’re doing your job of defending. [quote=“FlamesForAll, post:1, topic:1562442”]
how much Defenders rely on Wave Clear abd Minion killing!
[/quote]
Well, there’s only two defenders actually meant for waveclear: Ernest and Toby(who is barely a defender and is more of a 50/50 between attack and defense). All the others can tank the wave or use a single minion to build a charge (Attikus) or gain health (Kelvin). But that’s still only two. There are four attackers meant for waveclear: OM, Orendi, Thorn, and Benedict. Foxtrot is also great at waveclear. You can substitute “meant” for “excel at” for most of the attackers too.

Well, where are your team’s attackers?

Or just have a balanced amount of attackers, defenders, and support…[quote=“FlamesForAll, post:1, topic:1562442”]
But for those of us who main Defenders its frustrating!
[/quote]

If everyone on the team but one (that one would presumably be support) plays defender, you should be frustrated at yourself. If you pick a Defender who can’t waveclear knowing full well that there is barely any waveclear on your team at all… well, frankly, that’s your/your team’s fault for not knowing anything about team composition.

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I think Galilea is fine having the damage reduction since she’s a melee, but Ernest and Toby won’t need the reduction so they should have the damage buff :stuck_out_tongue:

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And we who mains supports didn’t get anything :smirk:

But yeah, while I can appreciate the buffs, they’re just too simplified. Thorn & Orendi didn’t need damage buffs while Boldur and Shayne & Aurox didn’t need a damage reduction buff. And as already mentionsd above, Toby and Ernest for instance would benefit a lot more from a damage boost rather than a damage reduction.

Oh well!

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Complicated stuff, you guys!

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Ernest should have DR, Toby could go either way.

Also guys, remember it’s just 15%… against non-Battleborn…

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I like the idea of the role-based buffs, but I’m not sure they’ve matched roles all that well. Defender/Attacker? This game is more complicated than that.

Wave clear “pushers” need the non-BB damage. Assassins need something different, maybe critical damage buff instead? Etc.

Consider this: Ernest and OM are both pushers. Ernest is a defender, and OM is an attacker. Hell, KU is a support and a pusher. The role definitions are a bit too complicated for the 15/15/0 thing to be meaningful without pushing some characters OUT of their intended roles.

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The damage that defenders do against minions has not changed. It’s not like they are now doing less damage to them. They are taking less damage from them, though. The point is that it should now be easier for defenders to clear out the waves than it was before, or at least not any more difficult.

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Indeed. Imo the DR-buff gave most Defenders the possibility to stay longer in lane when facing rival minions. Attackers may crush them more easily, but with less DR they have do dive in and out far more than their defending bros.
(for most attackers this was always the case - like Rath & Dragon, but It hink you get my point.)

That gives a Defender some windows of opportunity (even if just a few seconds) to face a rival Battleborn in lane while minions still fire at him/her.

Sidenote: This buff evolved Shaurox onto a higher level of monstrosity. I´m now more afraid of Shayne then of Gal or Ghalt. ~shivers~

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There is no reason for defenders to have an attack bonus in addition to the DR bonus against NPEs. I understand the problem with Toby and Ernest I guess but that is more of an issue with labeling and Ernest having a “jack of all trades” bloated kit and his big nerf to wave clear was the direct hit fix not the absence of a damage buff.

These new buffs to NPEs are to further define roles and how characters are played and reduce the viability of off role builds as well as to offset the scaling on elites and thralls and the buff to sentries. I recommend playing to each roles strengths now more than ever since, with the exception of supports, thier strengths are stronger but thier weaknesses are the same. As a defender I recommend pulling aggro from thralls, elite bots, shepherds, minions, turrets and sentries. In order of priority with a few exceptions depending on the situation. As an attacker i recommend killing those same enemies while, as ever, avoiding taking damage from them.
Building for damage on defenders will not be as good anymore but not because it is worse than before but because building for defense is better than before.

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Idk I have had aurux bug out on me since the update. One time I hit a Reyna and he latched on but no stun she just ran away with him attached☹️. Did they change her cleanse without telling me?

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No from what I’ve heard and seen fetch is being really buggy :confused:

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It has always been kind of a crap shoot whenever I use it from the beginning more than any other skill but this is ridiculous.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhMxIsI4bcdliTaPVRbSoUFqHVZF

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What do y’all think about the following changes:

Attackers: Get 15% damage bonus / DR against sentries / thralls

Defenders: Get 15% damage bonus / DR against minions / bots

Supports: Get 15% price reduction on buildables, possibly 1/sec shard gen?

I’m just spitballing, obviously, but it seems an interesting path to look into.

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I think we should try this for a while and see what data they can get so that maybe further down the line we can get more specialized roles for some characters.

Another possible idea (which some may or may or agree with) is to instead split it up into melee/ranged, giving melee the DR and the ranged a damage bonus to non-battleborn! Just a thought :slight_smile:

Not sure about supports though, buildable reduction could be pretty dirty though combined with shard/wrench!

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